Bristol Cars goes into administration
Discussion
frankthetank2 said:
Another British car company up the swannie, genetta and morgan soon for the axe? hope not.
Ginetta have a thriving race series or two (road cars are few and far between though).Morgan still have a long waiting list IIRC, so should be ok too.
Bristol had neither of those.
I have been a long term Bristol enthusiast and love the cars built up to the 1970's - after then I am surprised they lasted so long.
In the 50's and 60's these were cars that could be favourably compared to the then top manufacturers like Bentley, Maserati, Facel Vega even Ferrari once they got the V8 installed. Then they separated from the Bristol Aircraft corporation and had to rely on the considerable but less infinite finances of Tony Crook (after he sold his various business interests). I think they had been struggling for many years before Toby Silverton took over - by the late 1980's they were an enigma in the industry and could not possibly be compared with Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Jaguar etc. The cars suffered from a lack of investment, but Crook possessed the usual masterly savvy salesman's patter (don't forget he used to own a large car and Piper plane dealership network) which probably helped to sell them to a few monied chinless wonders, but to the outsider caused much chin scratching.....
'Only 3 people had died in accidents in Bristols' - very good but less than 5,000 have been built in 65 years and probably less than a few hundred in the last 20 so these figures are a bit limp when compared with the 35million built by Mercedes over the same period.
'The car can do over 30mpg' Hmm, with a 5.9litre V8 based on 1960's vintage, probably at a constant 30mph
'The ventilation system was designed by the same people who designed Concorde's air conditioning'. With sliding levers from an Austin 1100, a 2 speed fan and a separate aftermarket large bolt on air conditioning unit this was not sophisticated enough to compare with an aircraft system that kept occupents cool at 60,000 feet travelling at Mach 2.
'Bristol produces 2 or 3 cars a week' More like 2 or 3 a month, if that.
The rather optomistic performance figures stated by Crook (he used to do all the performance testing) could never be proven because he never let anyone test them during after the 1980's. I am not sure why this was because the last few done before this time were very favorable towards the cars.
I hope they do continue - the Fighter (albeit mightily expensive) proves that they could produce a good car, but I fear they make a big loss on each one and need a lot more investment than even Silverton cannot come up with.
In the 50's and 60's these were cars that could be favourably compared to the then top manufacturers like Bentley, Maserati, Facel Vega even Ferrari once they got the V8 installed. Then they separated from the Bristol Aircraft corporation and had to rely on the considerable but less infinite finances of Tony Crook (after he sold his various business interests). I think they had been struggling for many years before Toby Silverton took over - by the late 1980's they were an enigma in the industry and could not possibly be compared with Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Jaguar etc. The cars suffered from a lack of investment, but Crook possessed the usual masterly savvy salesman's patter (don't forget he used to own a large car and Piper plane dealership network) which probably helped to sell them to a few monied chinless wonders, but to the outsider caused much chin scratching.....
'Only 3 people had died in accidents in Bristols' - very good but less than 5,000 have been built in 65 years and probably less than a few hundred in the last 20 so these figures are a bit limp when compared with the 35million built by Mercedes over the same period.
'The car can do over 30mpg' Hmm, with a 5.9litre V8 based on 1960's vintage, probably at a constant 30mph
'The ventilation system was designed by the same people who designed Concorde's air conditioning'. With sliding levers from an Austin 1100, a 2 speed fan and a separate aftermarket large bolt on air conditioning unit this was not sophisticated enough to compare with an aircraft system that kept occupents cool at 60,000 feet travelling at Mach 2.
'Bristol produces 2 or 3 cars a week' More like 2 or 3 a month, if that.
The rather optomistic performance figures stated by Crook (he used to do all the performance testing) could never be proven because he never let anyone test them during after the 1980's. I am not sure why this was because the last few done before this time were very favorable towards the cars.
I hope they do continue - the Fighter (albeit mightily expensive) proves that they could produce a good car, but I fear they make a big loss on each one and need a lot more investment than even Silverton cannot come up with.
joust said:
Businesses survive or don't based on simple principles. Bristol didn't follow them, and all the time therefore their niche was big enough they were fine.
Niche is good, until the niche becomes too small. Sad for the people involved, but just the way the free market works.
J
Well said. It's sad when any company goes bust, but being a petrolhead, even more so when it's on the automotive side. But if you don't follow conventional principles, you make it harder on yourself.Niche is good, until the niche becomes too small. Sad for the people involved, but just the way the free market works.
J
threespires said:
BMW
I've mentioned it many times before in these pages.
BMW do not have any product between £100,000 & £200,000 where VW Group and Mercedes do.
Bristol would be the perfect marque for BMW to pick up and use to fill that gap.
They already have a strong history between each other.
To me, it's a 'no brainer'.
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (info) (BMW), (literally English: Bavarian Motor Works) is a German automobile, motorcycle and engine manufacturing company founded in 1916. It also owns and produces the Mini brand, and is the parent company of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars. BMW produces motorcycles under BMW Motorrad and Husqvarna brands. BMW is known for its performance and luxury vehicles, and is a global leader in premium car salesI've mentioned it many times before in these pages.
BMW do not have any product between £100,000 & £200,000 where VW Group and Mercedes do.
Bristol would be the perfect marque for BMW to pick up and use to fill that gap.
They already have a strong history between each other.
To me, it's a 'no brainer'.
Phantom = £279300 - £329700
Ghost = £195k
Well it's always sad to see something disappear, particularly if it's British and even more so when it's something long-established (predating both Ferrari and Porsche). However it must be said that their reluctance to move with the times greatly contributed to their demise. And for years rumour had it that you couldn't buy a car from them unless Tony Crook liked you.
Worst of all, I've been living in Bristol since 1968 and can't remember seeing more than half a dozen of the things during that time. The last one was this one and was over a year ago:
I couldn't even begin to tell you which models it is. Sorry!
Worst of all, I've been living in Bristol since 1968 and can't remember seeing more than half a dozen of the things during that time. The last one was this one and was over a year ago:
I couldn't even begin to tell you which models it is. Sorry!
davepoth said:
Soon to be bought by SSangyong no doubt. Although to be honest Bristol would be a very good brand to export to China. Massive, slightly awkwardly styled GTs designed to cruise in comfort rather than set times at the Ring.
no, people in China wouldn't buy it - it's not flashy enough! All Chinese care about is the best way to show of their money... and the last thing they want is to show off some obscure brand name which they would likely get scoffed at for. I suspect this has to do with their MOD contracts being pulled rather than the car sales.
Only last year did they show at the FOS, for the first time in decades they showed their cars off in the UK.
I have been to he showroom and talked with Toby myself about how his gran use to push tissues into a light bulb holder just in case the electricity leak out lol. People who say the designs were out dated need to have a look again. The Fighter was brought out way before the Veryon but to design a car with no external flaps, wings etc with a Cd of 0.27 and is stable at 270mph is quite a feet.
I was just thinking the other day of going down to the show room again, offering my services and asking what would i have to do to get a job with them. It would have been my dream job! Sadly no more i fear.
Come on £51 million win tonight!
Only last year did they show at the FOS, for the first time in decades they showed their cars off in the UK.
I have been to he showroom and talked with Toby myself about how his gran use to push tissues into a light bulb holder just in case the electricity leak out lol. People who say the designs were out dated need to have a look again. The Fighter was brought out way before the Veryon but to design a car with no external flaps, wings etc with a Cd of 0.27 and is stable at 270mph is quite a feet.
I was just thinking the other day of going down to the show room again, offering my services and asking what would i have to do to get a job with them. It would have been my dream job! Sadly no more i fear.
Come on £51 million win tonight!
Edited by Chopper1979 on Friday 4th March 10:07
threespires said:
BMW
I've mentioned it many times before in these pages.
BMW do not have any product between £100,000 & £200,000 where VW Group and Mercedes do.
Bristol would be the perfect marque for BMW to pick up and use to fill that gap.
They already have a strong history between each other.
To me, it's a 'no brainer'.
Rolls RoyceI've mentioned it many times before in these pages.
BMW do not have any product between £100,000 & £200,000 where VW Group and Mercedes do.
Bristol would be the perfect marque for BMW to pick up and use to fill that gap.
They already have a strong history between each other.
To me, it's a 'no brainer'.
Like a few people on here I'm hardly surprised that such a low volume/high value niche player is sinking in the present times. Especially given the past owners rather off-beat approach to marketing & image.
That said I too would be sad to see it disappear as a unique brand of Britishness since for decades the company has been an alternative to the mainstream classy cars. Although I have no knowledge of reliability or maintenance issues I too would have had a fighter T as a possible on the Lottery wish list. Just because I could !
The fact that they became hugely expensive but without the PR & image of others in the price range no doubt resulted in the lack of (adequate) sales. I guess support network etc was an issue also although anyone in that wealth bracket could probably afford to have the car transported to the service centre when needed.
I consider them a car suited to people's individuality & not a bad thing therefore as I never viewed them to be compared with BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar or perhaps even Aston Martin-tho' AM is perhaps the closest. It's a similar scenario to the old David Brown (?) story where a friend asked him for an Aston "at cost" & the price was higher than retail ! He told him they lost money on each car.
My father always wanted one too. I'd be surprised if this event does NOT appear on Top Gear-shame after non appearance so far.
That said I too would be sad to see it disappear as a unique brand of Britishness since for decades the company has been an alternative to the mainstream classy cars. Although I have no knowledge of reliability or maintenance issues I too would have had a fighter T as a possible on the Lottery wish list. Just because I could !
The fact that they became hugely expensive but without the PR & image of others in the price range no doubt resulted in the lack of (adequate) sales. I guess support network etc was an issue also although anyone in that wealth bracket could probably afford to have the car transported to the service centre when needed.
I consider them a car suited to people's individuality & not a bad thing therefore as I never viewed them to be compared with BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar or perhaps even Aston Martin-tho' AM is perhaps the closest. It's a similar scenario to the old David Brown (?) story where a friend asked him for an Aston "at cost" & the price was higher than retail ! He told him they lost money on each car.
My father always wanted one too. I'd be surprised if this event does NOT appear on Top Gear-shame after non appearance so far.
The Wookie said:
I was never a fan and am very unsurprised by this, but FWIW it is genuinely a shame. Never good to see another British manufacturer disappear.
That said, is it not the case that we as a nation over the past fifty years or so have been guilty of building outdated product in many industries and with creeping globalisation we have stopped getting away with it? Bristol being an anachronism seems to have held on for longer than most.Our mass-market car industry was a case in point. Awful product manufactured by militant numbskulls. Eventually when the Rover 75 came out, which was actually good, no one cared anymore.
Ditto our bicycles. Raleigh peddled (ho ho) utter crap into the market for decades. Then mountain bikes came along, with the americans leading the way. So Raleigh decided to use the same crappy steel frames and make them look like mountain bikes - they were predictably rubbish. By the time they woke up and started making decent bikes no one cared anymore.
Then of course our motorbike industry...
The days are over of the plucky Brit in a converted nissan hut churning out quirky mainstream motors and frankly we need them as much as we need bakelite radios.
Manks said:
The Wookie said:
I was never a fan and am very unsurprised by this, but FWIW it is genuinely a shame. Never good to see another British manufacturer disappear.
That said, is it not the case that we as a nation over the past fifty years or so have been guilty of building outdated product in many industries and with creeping globalisation we have stopped getting away with it? Bristol being an anachronism seems to have held on for longer than most.Our mass-market car industry was a case in point. Awful product manufactured by militant numbskulls. Eventually when the Rover 75 came out, which was actually good, no one cared anymore.
Ditto our bicycles. Raleigh peddled (ho ho) utter crap into the market for decades. Then mountain bikes came along, with the americans leading the way. So Raleigh decided to use the same crappy steel frames and make them look like mountain bikes - they were predictably rubbish. By the time they woke up and started making decent bikes no one cared anymore.
Then of course our motorbike industry...
The days are over of the plucky Brit in a converted nissan hut churning out quirky mainstream motors and frankly we need them as much as we need bakelite radios.
Of course, making money supplying them is something else...
Hendry said:
Manks said:
The Wookie said:
I was never a fan and am very unsurprised by this, but FWIW it is genuinely a shame. Never good to see another British manufacturer disappear.
That said, is it not the case that we as a nation over the past fifty years or so have been guilty of building outdated product in many industries and with creeping globalisation we have stopped getting away with it? Bristol being an anachronism seems to have held on for longer than most.Our mass-market car industry was a case in point. Awful product manufactured by militant numbskulls. Eventually when the Rover 75 came out, which was actually good, no one cared anymore.
Ditto our bicycles. Raleigh peddled (ho ho) utter crap into the market for decades. Then mountain bikes came along, with the americans leading the way. So Raleigh decided to use the same crappy steel frames and make them look like mountain bikes - they were predictably rubbish. By the time they woke up and started making decent bikes no one cared anymore.
Then of course our motorbike industry...
The days are over of the plucky Brit in a converted nissan hut churning out quirky mainstream motors and frankly we need them as much as we need bakelite radios.
Of course, making money supplying them is something else...
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