Are the wheels about to fall of car finance?

[nickfrog]

HumanDoing said:

Was that before or after he repeatedly stated my wife must have a physical or mental disability?

Neither as it didn't happen.

nickfrog said:

HumanDoing said:

I showed my wife this thread last night and she said she was proud of me

Which episode of the Undateables were you guys on ?

These are your words:

HumanDoing said:

I don't know if you've noticed Frog but it's clearly a joke thread

And remember, it's a great programme that promotes inclusion in society. Everyone is entitled to romance. Don't you agree ?

[nickfrog]

HumanDoing said:

Ah right sorry I thought you were Dutch.

No worries, I have been called worse.

[HumanDoing]

nickfrog said:

No worries, I have been called worse.

Yes I know how that feels.

[liner33]

Out of interest Nick , whats the situation with PCP in France ? The times I've visited older cars seem a lot more expensive and the average age of cars outside of the cities does seem to be older than UK or Germany

[Mandat]

HumanDoing said:

Umcalled-for abuse. Please tell me what is trolling about pointing out that most PCPers pay for their pcp what it costs to buy the car outright at 3 years? I think you're accusing 'trolling' with 'holding a view with which you disagree'

I'm sorry if you percieve my comments as abuse.

Why don't you add it to the "greatest hits" of abuse that you promised to post last week. We're still waiting for you on that.

You are trolling because you come onto different threads, post spurious content, and then refuse to engage in debate when called out on you errors.

Edited by Mandat on Monday 30th October 11:35

[nickfrog]

liner33 said:

Out of interest Nick , whats the situation with PCP in France ? The times I've visited older cars seem a lot more expensive and the average age of cars outside of the cities does seem to be older than UK or Germany

PCP/lease in France is growing but is nowhere near as large a proportion of new car sales as it is in the UK yet.

It's a smaller market for new cars than in the UK I think but I have no data - people tend to hold on to their cars for longer indeed.

ETA : the new car market in France is 2 million units per year, not sure how that compares to the UK ?

[HumanDoing]

[quote=Mandat]

I'm sorry if you percieve my comments as abuse.

Why don't you add it to the "greatest hits" of abuse that you promised to post last week. We're still waiting for you on that.

You are trolling because you come onto different threads, post spurious content, and then refuse to engage in debate when called out on you errors.

Edited by Mandat on Monday 30th October 11:35

[/quote

Right what errors?

[Mandat]

nickfrog said:

HumanDoing said:

that most PCPers pay for their pcp what it costs to buy the car outright at 3 years?

Please share the data.

In my own personal experience, the PCP on my Q5 has cost me £27k over 3 years, and In August I paid off the £21k baloon, while the car is currently worth about £25k.

HD is right, that in my particualr my situation is would have been cheaper for me to buy a 3 year old Q5, then what a new Q5 had cost over the first 3 years. All he has done is show that a 3 year old car is chaeper than a brand new car. That is some insightful knowlwedge there.

However, so what!

Some people are happy with buying used cars at a cheaper cost, while others are happy to pay the going rate for a brand new car. Who are you to judge & criticise the choices that people want to make about spending their money?

[nickfrog]

Mandat said:

In my own personal experience, the PCP on my Q5 has cost me £27k over 3 years, and In August I paid off the £21k baloon, while the car is currently worth about £25k.

HD is right, that in my particualr my situation is would have been cheaper for me to buy a 3 year old Q5, then what a new Q5 had cost over the first 3 years. All he has done is show that a 3 year old car is chaeper than a brand new car. That is some insightful knowlwedge there.

However, so what!

Some people are happy with buying used cars at a cheaper cost, while others are happy to pay the going rate for a brand new car. Who are you to judge & criticise the choices that people want to make about spending their money?

Absolutely ! The outcome varies on a case by case basis so any sweeping statement is wrong, by definition.

In simple terms : it depends.

[HumanDoing]

nickfrog said:

Absolutely ! The outcome varies on a case by case basis so any sweeping statement is wrong, by definition.

In simple terms : it depends.

You're absolutely right.

[Carl_Manchester]

new article on ZH discusses some of the things mentioned in the previous pages here.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/car-crash...

[Yipper]

nickfrog said:

liner33 said:

Out of interest Nick , whats the situation with PCP in France ? The times I've visited older cars seem a lot more expensive and the average age of cars outside of the cities does seem to be older than UK or Germany

PCP/lease in France is growing but is nowhere near as large a proportion of new car sales as it is in the UK yet.

It's a smaller market for new cars than in the UK I think but I have no data - people tend to hold on to their cars for longer indeed.

ETA : the new car market in France is 2 million units per year, not sure how that compares to the UK ?

Germany = 3.4m cars sold in 2016.
UK = 2.7m.
France = 2.0m.

[Granfondo]

Good discussion by Martin Lewis on radio 5 Live this morning on interest rare rise.

[HumanDoing]

Mandat said:

In my own personal experience, the PCP on my Q5 has cost me £27k over 3 years, and In August I paid off the £21k baloon, while the car is currently worth about £25k.

HD is right, that in my particualr my situation is would have been cheaper for me to buy a 3 year old Q5, then what a new Q5 had cost over the first 3 years. All he has done is show that a 3 year old car is chaeper than a brand new car. That is some insightful knowlwedge there.

However, so what!

Some people are happy with buying used cars at a cheaper cost, while others are happy to pay the going rate for a brand new car. Who are you to judge & criticise the choices that people want to make about spending their money?

No need for the condescending hostility, dat.

Let me put it another way - let's say you had 18 year old offspring who were thinking of getting their first car. Would you seriously advocate they PCP rather than buying used outright and getting obstensibly the same vehicle for a fraction of the cost? Additionally do people not find it extraordinary that the cost of PCP for 3 years tends to be pretty much the exact cost of buying used at 3 years - we're not talking a difference of a few hundred quid here, we're talking tens of thousands, maybe even a six figure sum saved over the course of a lifetime by buying at 3 years.

One could put one's granddaughter through university with the saving, especially if invested for even a modest rate of return.

[silentbrown]

HumanDoing said:

Additionally do people not find it extraordinary that the cost of PCP for 3 years tends to be pretty much the exact cost of buying used at 3 years

That's called depreciation

My rule of thumb has always been that any car you buy (new OR used) will be worth half as much in three years. With low rates, PCP vs buying outright makes comparatively little difference to the cost.

Buying old vs new is just a choice you make based on priorities. And cars depreciate for a reason - a 3-year old car will have a lot less life left in tyres, brakes, timing belts, fluids - all of which you'll be replacing in your ownership. And of course, you've no warranty.

[HumanDoing]

silentbrown said:

That's called depreciation

My rule of thumb has always been that any car you buy (new OR used) will be worth half as much in three years. With low rates, PCP vs buying outright makes comparatively little difference to the cost.

Buying old vs new is just a choice you make based on priorities. And cars depreciate for a reason - a 3-year old car will have a lot less life left in tyres, brakes, timing belts, fluids - all of which you'll be replacing in your ownership. And of course, you've no warranty.

Brown it's not that hard to find cars on the forecourt at three years old where you wouldn't know they weren't brand new if they reset the mileage to 0 and stuck a false plate on. Buying at 2 or 3 years saves so much that I don't think the odd set of brake pads is going cause much of a dent in the saving. I'm just always bewildered as to how people can simultaneously think they're buying a fantastic, quality machine worth serious $$$ but that also it's going to void its bowels at 3 years old.

[SWoll]

HumanDoing said:

Brown it's not that hard to find cars on the forecourt at three years old where you wouldn't know they weren't brand new if they reset the mileage to 0 and stuck a false plate on. Buying at 2 or 3 years saves so much that I don't think the odd set of brake pads is going cause much of a dent in the saving. I'm just always bewildered as to how people can simultaneously think they're buying a fantastic, quality machine worth serious $$$ but that also it's going to void its bowels at 3 years old.

Because I've done it and ended up with big bills and arguments with both official used and third party warranty companies over getting work done on 4 separate occasions with cars bought at 3 year old.

When you've had to deal with upset phone calls from the wife telling you she's stranded in the middle of nowhere with the kids in the back, endless arguments with dealerships or warranty companies over faults, having to put your hand in your pocket for expensive repairs in the hope you'll be able to claim it back at some point in the future and all of the other aggravation involved with used cars that I've had then you can comment on why people lease or PCP new cars.

The peace of mind a new, fully warranted lease car offers is worth every penny in my actual experience.

All you need to do is read through the multitude of regular threads from people who've bought a lemon, or got a warranty not worth the paper it's written on, or found they couldn't sell their car for love nor money so had to take a knock down price from a WBAC type outfit once they want to change it to see what i mean.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 30th October 23:37

[Mandat]

HumanDoing said:

No need for the condescending hostility, dat.

Let me put it another way - let's say you had 18 year old offspring who were thinking of getting their first car. Would you seriously advocate they PCP rather than buying used outright and getting obstensibly the same vehicle for a fraction of the cost? Additionally do people not find it extraordinary that the cost of PCP for 3 years tends to be pretty much the exact cost of buying used at 3 years - we're not talking a difference of a few hundred quid here, we're talking tens of thousands, maybe even a six figure sum saved over the course of a lifetime by buying at 3 years.

One could put one's granddaughter through university with the saving, especially if invested for even a modest rate of return.

There was no condescention, and certainly no hostility in my post. I was actually agreeing with a point that you made.

You keep comparing the costs of new cars to used cars, as some justification that your point of view is correct. As a lot of people have already told you, in many different posts, such a comparisson is meaningless becuase all car buyers will have different priorities, and will decide to spend their money on different things & in differnet ways.

So, I'll ask again; why do you care so much?

BTW, your continuing scat fetish is quite disturbing.

[jjr1]

SWoll said:

HumanDoing said:

Brown it's not that hard to find cars on the forecourt at three years old where you wouldn't know they weren't brand new if they reset the mileage to 0 and stuck a false plate on. Buying at 2 or 3 years saves so much that I don't think the odd set of brake pads is going cause much of a dent in the saving. I'm just always bewildered as to how people can simultaneously think they're buying a fantastic, quality machine worth serious $$$ but that also it's going to void its bowels at 3 years old.

Because I've done it and ended up with big bills and arguments with both official used and third party warranty companies over getting work done on 4 separate occasions with cars bought at 3 year old.

When you've had to deal with upset phone calls from the wife telling you she's stranded in the middle of nowhere with the kids in the back, endless arguments with dealerships or warranty companies over faults, having to put your hand in your pocket for expensive repairs in the hope you'll be able to claim it back at some point in the future and all of the other aggravation involved with used cars that I've had then you can comment on why people lease or PCP new cars.

The peace of mind a new, fully warranted lease car offers is worth every penny in my actual experience.

All you need to do is read through the multitude of regular threads from people who've bought a lemon, or got a warranty not worth the paper it's written on, or found they couldn't sell their car for love nor money so had to take a knock down price from a WBAC type outfit once they want to change it to see what i mean.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 30th October 23:37

Maybe you are not a great buyer of cars?

All my cars are 'not brand new' and that is the way I like to buy them. That peace of mind bks is just a great way to spunk a load of cash on depreciation.

My current driveway would have cost around 140k brand new. They have cost me around 90k. That 50k goes a long way towards peace of mind lol

[TA14]

silentbrown said:

My rule of thumb has always been that any car you buy (new OR used) will be worth half as much in three years. With low rates, PCP vs buying outright makes comparatively little difference to the cost.

Buying old vs new is just a choice you make based on priorities. And cars depreciate for a reason - a 3-year old car will have a lot less life left in tyres, brakes, timing belts, fluids - all of which you'll be replacing in your ownership. And of course, you've no warranty.

jjr1 said:

SWoll said:

HumanDoing said:

Brown it's not that hard to find cars on the forecourt at three years old where you wouldn't know they weren't brand new if they reset the mileage to 0 and stuck a false plate on. Buying at 2 or 3 years saves so much that I don't think the odd set of brake pads is going cause much of a dent in the saving. I'm just always bewildered as to how people can simultaneously think they're buying a fantastic, quality machine worth serious $$$ but that also it's going to void its bowels at 3 years old.

Because I've done it and ended up with big bills and arguments with both official used and third party warranty companies over getting work done on 4 separate occasions with cars bought at 3 year old.

When you've had to deal with upset phone calls from the wife telling you she's stranded in the middle of nowhere with the kids in the back, endless arguments with dealerships or warranty companies over faults, having to put your hand in your pocket for expensive repairs in the hope you'll be able to claim it back at some point in the future and all of the other aggravation involved with used cars that I've had then you can comment on why people lease or PCP new cars.

The peace of mind a new, fully warranted lease car offers is worth every penny in my actual experience.

All you need to do is read through the multitude of regular threads from people who've bought a lemon, or got a warranty not worth the paper it's written on, or found they couldn't sell their car for love nor money so had to take a knock down price from a WBAC type outfit once they want to change it to see what i mean.

Maybe you are not a great buyer of cars?

All my cars are 'not brand new' and that is the way I like to buy them. That peace of mind bks is just a great way to spunk a load of cash on depreciation.

My current driveway would have cost around 140k brand new. They have cost me around 90k. That 50k goes a long way towards peace of mind lol

This is an odd thread at times. jj's figures seem about the right proportion. In Brown's case, if he had bought a car for £30K new and the depreciation cost him £15K over three years then the cost to run the same car over the next three years may be £7.5K depreciation + tyres, belt etc at £2.5K = £10K. Some of us would prefer to keep the extra £5K and run the risk whilst others would prefer to spend it and reduce the risk. Overall it is odd that as cars become both more reliable and last longer than ever people want to make sure that they're in newer models more than ever.