ULEZ charge in 2021

[Burwood]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It doesn’t flag it. They’ll get caught eventually when someone who knows what they do dibs them in. And TFL will spend 20k investigating and levy them with a 20k invoice then take them to court.

I do feel sorry for anyone paying so much to drive in the city. There will always be 1% who try and avoid

[kev1974]

C70R said:

T-195 said:

T-195 said:

Surprised no one has blamed The Mayor yet.

Piece of piss. London Public Transport could easily cope with another 3 Million regular users.

Quite handy that the Elizabeth Line is opening later this year, and will bring capacity for another 200 million journeys per year.

From what I've heard on Crossrail the latest is that it is unlikely to deliver anything before 2020 now, and proper through running on the whole of the line not until the end of 2020. That project is an utter utter omnishambles, and is only adding to the pressure on TfL's budget.

[swamp]

kev1974 said:

From what I've heard on Crossrail the latest is that it is unlikely to deliver anything before 2020 now, and proper through running on the whole of the line not until the end of 2020. That project is an utter utter omnishambles, and is only adding to the pressure on TfL's budget.

Hammersmith Bridge was shut indefinitely yesterday. And TFL cuts mean they can't fund the repairs. All the bridge traffic will have to go via Putney and Chiswick now, which will make pollution in those areas far worse.

[fatboy18]

So have there been any pollution readings taken since they started this new Taxation in the Zone?

Not hearing much about it on the media?

As for Hammersmith Bridge being closed, You can now expect phase two of the LEZ to be bought in much quicker.
(they need the cash)

[NomduJour]

I imagine we’ll get staged results as and when the buses on particular routes are made compliant.

[DonkeyApple]

C70R said:

NomduJour said:

Exhibition Road is being remodelled to separate pedestrians from traffic; seems sensible to me - there are always people in the middle of the carriageway, cars on the wrong side of the road etc.

Not sure what this has to do with the ULEZ?

Exhibition Road was an experiment, and it appears that experiment has failed. Given how busy London is generally, I'm all up for out-the-box thinking to try and maximise the available space.

It was another of those Dutch things that we copied because it worked brilliantly in an environment where the bulk of the humans were uniformly identically raised and educated in the same place and in environment where populations are magnitudes smaller so social consciousness much higher. If it hasn’t worked then we can hardly be surprised in a city that manifestly is everything that Dutch urban culture is not. With the arguable exception of vast numbers of immigrant prostitutes.

It’s like the autonomous car thing. In North America pedestrians naturally stop for cars. In Canada it is just plain robotic and weird how pedestrians operate. You can see autonomous cars working very well in almost all US cities. Then you look at London and realise that the only thing keeping pedestrians on the pavement is fear. Autonomous cars will never work in London because they are programming the cars to be subservient to pedestrians.

What does annoy me about London is that we keeping looking to other countries for answers to these urban issues. There is no other environment on the planet that is like the London road network and the people who use it. Nothing at all. It is an environment where solutions need to be derived by considering the precise environment and its unique variables.

[coldel]

Its a really good shout, if you look at Japan even if there is nothing else on the road for miles in either direction but the pedestrian crossing is showing red for the pedestrian, said pedestrian will patiently stand there and wait.

But yes we need to look at UK culture and UK city layouts and observe where good practices happen, they might be subtle but introduce them across the city and positive change will be cumulatively larger. The problem with a lot of mayoral initiatives is that you have effectively a thousand little nails scattered everywhere and they think they can hammer them all in with one big hammer and one big dumb lumbering guy swinging it. They need more smaller hammers, with users who have more intelligence on how to use them - I guess that would cost more and make less money though (which is fundamentally the underlying goal of all this).

[C70R]

swamp said:

kev1974 said:

From what I've heard on Crossrail the latest is that it is unlikely to deliver anything before 2020 now, and proper through running on the whole of the line not until the end of 2020. That project is an utter utter omnishambles, and is only adding to the pressure on TfL's budget.

Hammersmith Bridge was shut indefinitely yesterday. And TFL cuts mean they can't fund the repairs. All the bridge traffic will have to go via Putney and Chiswick now, which will make pollution in those areas far worse.

Indeed. It's a bit strange that repairs to a 200-year old suspension bridge could catch TfL by surprise.

[C70R]

fatboy18 said:

As for Hammersmith Bridge being closed, You can now expect phase two of the LEZ to be bought in much quicker.
(they need the cash)

That feels like a very pessimistic point of view, and slightly unfounded.

There's a lot of infrastructure and logistics required to implement the extended LEZ, and I don't even know if it's feasible to accelerate that timeline.

[NomduJour]

Has anything actually been published about how the extended ULEZ will be enforced? There are an awful lot of roads off the North and South Circulars.

[Venisonpie]

DonkeyApple said:

It was another of those Dutch things that we copied because it worked brilliantly in an environment where the bulk of the humans were uniformly identically raised and educated in the same place and in environment where populations are magnitudes smaller so social consciousness much higher. If it hasn’t worked then we can hardly be surprised in a city that manifestly is everything that Dutch urban culture is not. With the arguable exception of vast numbers of immigrant prostitutes.

It’s like the autonomous car thing. In North America pedestrians naturally stop for cars. In Canada it is just plain robotic and weird how pedestrians operate. You can see autonomous cars working very well in almost all US cities. Then you look at London and realise that the only thing keeping pedestrians on the pavement is fear. Autonomous cars will never work in London because they are programming the cars to be subservient to pedestrians.

What does annoy me about London is that we keeping looking to other countries for answers to these urban issues. There is no other environment on the planet that is like the London road network and the people who use it. Nothing at all. It is an environment where solutions need to be derived by considering the precise environment and its unique variables.

Your final paragraph is interesting. Until recently I've been working with a tech company that is looking to optimise freight movements in Greater London - my role being an experienced logistics operator. Watching them grapple with London infrastructure was painful and at times comical. London is a very old city that has evolved and never really been designed. As such it's full of variables dating back 100's of years. Trying to apply a binary science to it is going to be tricky (but not impossible) however as you say using established solutions from alien environments isn't the answer, accepting it as a unique challenge is.

[DonkeyApple]

NomduJour said:

Has anything actually been published about how the extended ULEZ will be enforced? There are an awful lot of roads off the North and South Circulars.

I assume hundreds of thousands of cameras and staff requiring billions in fines to pay for it?

[coldel]

DonkeyApple said:

NomduJour said:

Has anything actually been published about how the extended ULEZ will be enforced? There are an awful lot of roads off the North and South Circulars.

I assume hundreds of thousands of cameras and staff requiring billions in fines to pay for it?

I presume also its cameras recording number plates. But the scale is huge, and you need to consider issues such as roads which are dead ends/cul-de-sacs that go out onto the north and south circular roads but are inside the zone. It would make no sense at all to camera these roads, some literally go inside the zone 50 metres then come to an end with a handful of houses on them, it would not be proper to charge these cars just to leave the end of their road each time they are used. I imagine we have plenty of debate to come on this at a council and political level before its finally decided on how it works.

[NomduJour]

They had better get a move on, given it’s supposed to start in 30 months.

[RemyMartin81D]

kev1974 said:

C70R said:

T-195 said:

T-195 said:

Surprised no one has blamed The Mayor yet.

Piece of piss. London Public Transport could easily cope with another 3 Million regular users.

Quite handy that the Elizabeth Line is opening later this year, and will bring capacity for another 200 million journeys per year.

From what I've heard on Crossrail the latest is that it is unlikely to deliver anything before 2020 now, and proper through running on the whole of the line not until the end of 2020. That project is an utter utter omnishambles, and is only adding to the pressure on TfL's budget.

November/December Crossrail services are due to take our(GWR, who I drive for) services from Reading to Paddington. It will be just an extension for now on the Hayes Paddington services and by that I mean Crossrail services to the 'old' Paddington.

Infrastructure testing is massively behind for the run into the tunnel and through it as just before the trains veer off no left into the tunnel ERTMS and semi automatic train control zones and this is what is delayed, not to mention all the stations west wise haven't been build. Platform extensions delayed etc etc.

[C70R]

DonkeyApple said:

NomduJour said:

Has anything actually been published about how the extended ULEZ will be enforced? There are an awful lot of roads off the North and South Circulars.

I assume hundreds of thousands of cameras and staff requiring billions in fines to pay for it?

Why do you think that ANPR requires so much staffing?

[C70R]

Venisonpie said:

DonkeyApple said:

What does annoy me about London is that we keeping looking to other countries for answers to these urban issues. There is no other environment on the planet that is like the London road network and the people who use it. Nothing at all. It is an environment where solutions need to be derived by considering the precise environment and its unique variables.

Your final paragraph is interesting. Until recently I've been working with a tech company that is looking to optimise freight movements in Greater London - my role being an experienced logistics operator. Watching them grapple with London infrastructure was painful and at times comical. London is a very old city that has evolved and never really been designed. As such it's full of variables dating back 100's of years. Trying to apply a binary science to it is going to be tricky (but not impossible) however as you say using established solutions from alien environments isn't the answer, accepting it as a unique challenge is.

Couldn't agree more with both.

It makes me laugh when people (usually non-Londoners) decry London infrastructure and public transport, but the only places they can compare it with don't suffer any of the same limitations.

[fatboy18]

C70R said:

Venisonpie said:

DonkeyApple said:

What does annoy me about London is that we keeping looking to other countries for answers to these urban issues. There is no other environment on the planet that is like the London road network and the people who use it. Nothing at all. It is an environment where solutions need to be derived by considering the precise environment and its unique variables.

Your final paragraph is interesting. Until recently I've been working with a tech company that is looking to optimise freight movements in Greater London - my role being an experienced logistics operator. Watching them grapple with London infrastructure was painful and at times comical. London is a very old city that has evolved and never really been designed. As such it's full of variables dating back 100's of years. Trying to apply a binary science to it is going to be tricky (but not impossible) however as you say using established solutions from alien environments isn't the answer, accepting it as a unique challenge is.

Couldn't agree more with both.

It makes me laugh when people (usually non-Londoners) decry London infrastructure and public transport, but the only places they can compare it with don't suffer any of the same limitations.

Surely Paris is not that dissimilar?

It has an airport nearbuy, a ring road with parts of it much like the North Circular, Old established buildings and a rusty relic next to the river, our rusty relics are in the House of Lords and Commons next to the river

[fatboy18]

One way now to help cars get from the west of london to the east could be to turn Hammersmith bridge into a on / off ramp, then get the Army or construction industry to build a long Bailey bridge with a series of pontoons on the thames to Docklands and have a on /off ramp near City Airport. lets face it the river is very underused.

[Killboy]

C70R said:

It makes me laugh when people (usually non-Londoners) decry London infrastructure and public transport, but the only places they can compare it with don't suffer any of the same limitations.

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.