ULEZ charge in 2021

[fatboy18]

I think the term London is the problem, it needs to be defined better. When you have trains coming in from outside london and busses in the suburbs, it still ends up being wrapped up in London Public transport.

I live inside the M25 but in Surrey (not a London Borough).
Nights out in London are pretty much a no go because if you want to stay out late trains back to the local station don't run. then If you choose the underground the nearest station is still some 20 miles from my home so then its either a Black cab or mini cab. So that's another £30 quid

How is one supposed to do shopping? I would normally take a car to a large supermarket and do a weekly shop. How do people that actually live in London do this, does everyone have there shopping delivered? If so that's a whole bunch more of delivery vans traveling around isn't it?

[Venisonpie]

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

[C70R]

Killboy said:

C70R said:

It makes me laugh when people (usually non-Londoners) decry London infrastructure and public transport, but the only places they can compare it with don't suffer any of the same limitations.

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

I'm with you. Given everything it has to deal with, I think it's blooming excellent.

But I can't say that without being called a Kahn shill or fanboy (even though he's personally done naff all to improve it).

[C70R]

fatboy18 said:

I think the term London is the problem, it needs to be defined better. When you have trains coming in from outside london and busses in the suburbs, it still ends up being wrapped up in London Public transport.

I live inside the M25 but in Surrey (not a London Borough).
Nights out in London are pretty much a no go because if you want to stay out late trains back to the local station don't run. then If you choose the underground the nearest station is still some 20 miles from my home so then its either a Black cab or mini cab. So that's another £30 quid

How is one supposed to do shopping? I would normally take a car to a large supermarket and do a weekly shop. How do people that actually live in London do this, does everyone have there shopping delivered? If so that's a whole bunch more of delivery vans traveling around isn't it?

Wait.

So are you saying that you live somewhere that isn't London, that isn't planned to ever be covered by the ULEZ, but you're worried about how you'll cope?

[kiethton]

Venisonpie said:

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

But living on the zone 3/4 border, unless going into central london (unless you live near to one of the stations which takes you to the part of London where you need to be) the car is the only real option. Hence why I commute in on a cycle/motor bike (trains don't run at the necessary frequency, from somewhere close enough, at that time of the morning to get to work. Try getting around/to/from the local towns - the car is the only real option - a bus takes twice as long (if it goes in the right direction) and costs double...

[NomduJour]

Khan has screwed TfL’s finances with his fare freeze and having zero contingencies in place for the scheduled grant reductions. Add the reducing passenger numbers and he has a funding problem which needs sorting quickly...

[C70R]

kiethton said:

Venisonpie said:

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

But living on the zone 3/4 border, unless going into central london (unless you live near to one of the stations which takes you to the part of London where you need to be) the car is the only real option. Hence why I commute in on a cycle/motor bike (trains don't run at the necessary frequency, from somewhere close enough, at that time of the morning to get to work. Try getting around/to/from the local towns - the car is the only real option - a bus takes twice as long (if it goes in the right direction) and costs double...

But you're living on the very edge of what is considered London. We've spoken about this before, at length, and where you live is practically in Kent.

Why on earth would you move there and expect the infrastructure to be as good as somewhere nearer the centre? The transport system can't perform miracles, you know...

[coldel]

kiethton said:

Venisonpie said:

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

But living on the zone 3/4 border, unless going into central london (unless you live near to one of the stations which takes you to the part of London where you need to be) the car is the only real option. Hence why I commute in on a cycle/motor bike (trains don't run at the necessary frequency, from somewhere close enough, at that time of the morning to get to work. Try getting around/to/from the local towns - the car is the only real option - a bus takes twice as long (if it goes in the right direction) and costs double...

I think someone mentioned in the thread some time back but London is a wheel and spoke design for public transport, great for heading in and out but try getting across it if you live in zones 3-5 it becomes very impractical. For instance for me to get to Heathrow by public transport from my zone 3 address is around 1 hour 30 mins to 2 hours depending on waiting times, by car its 25 minutes. My wife worked the otherside of Richmond park from our house address, by car its 10 minutes, by buses its over an hour.

Overall public transport is pretty good, most days my commute is fine, but then when I am not commuting and want to shop/visit friends/visit family outside of London then public transport falls flat on its backside.

[C70R]

coldel said:

kiethton said:

Venisonpie said:

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

But living on the zone 3/4 border, unless going into central london (unless you live near to one of the stations which takes you to the part of London where you need to be) the car is the only real option. Hence why I commute in on a cycle/motor bike (trains don't run at the necessary frequency, from somewhere close enough, at that time of the morning to get to work. Try getting around/to/from the local towns - the car is the only real option - a bus takes twice as long (if it goes in the right direction) and costs double...

I think someone mentioned in the thread some time back but London is a wheel and spoke design for public transport, great for heading in and out but try getting across it if you live in zones 3-5 it becomes very impractical. For instance for me to get to Heathrow by public transport from my zone 3 address is around 1 hour 30 mins to 2 hours depending on waiting times, by car its 25 minutes. My wife worked the otherside of Richmond park from our house address, by car its 10 minutes, by buses its over an hour.

Overall public transport is pretty good, most days my commute is fine, but then when I am not commuting and want to shop/visit friends/visit family outside of London then public transport falls flat on its backside.

This is the principle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoke%E2%80%93hub_di...

[fatboy18]

C70R said:

fatboy18 said:

I think the term London is the problem, it needs to be defined better. When you have trains coming in from outside london and busses in the suburbs, it still ends up being wrapped up in London Public transport.

I live inside the M25 but in Surrey (not a London Borough).
Nights out in London are pretty much a no go because if you want to stay out late trains back to the local station don't run. then If you choose the underground the nearest station is still some 20 miles from my home so then its either a Black cab or mini cab. So that's another £30 quid

How is one supposed to do shopping? I would normally take a car to a large supermarket and do a weekly shop. How do people that actually live in London do this, does everyone have there shopping delivered? If so that's a whole bunch more of delivery vans traveling around isn't it?

Wait.

So are you saying that you live somewhere that isn't London, that isn't planned to ever be covered by the ULEZ, but you're worried about how you'll cope?

Yes and No, The LEZ is to start about 200 meters from my home, we then hear (I know its not right now but I'm sure it will be eventually rolled out) about making the inside of the M25 part of this scheme.
and although I currently live outside the affected Zone being a Handyman with a Van and Tools I work all over within the Zones and M25 area. So paying congestion charges etc I can't exactly load the whole of my van onto a Bus
Public transport around me is dire.

[kiethton]

C70R said:

kiethton said:

Venisonpie said:

Killboy said:

I must also be the only person that thinks London transport Infrastructure is actually very very good.

Nope, I think it's excellent. It's not and never has been able to be a clean sheet design, it's evolved. The tube for example is Victorian infrastructure being used in the 21st century to cater for more users than the original spec could ever have dreamed of. Living on the zone 2/3 border the best way to get about is public transport. The car is largely redundant.

But living on the zone 3/4 border, unless going into central london (unless you live near to one of the stations which takes you to the part of London where you need to be) the car is the only real option. Hence why I commute in on a cycle/motor bike (trains don't run at the necessary frequency, from somewhere close enough, at that time of the morning to get to work. Try getting around/to/from the local towns - the car is the only real option - a bus takes twice as long (if it goes in the right direction) and costs double...

But you're living on the very edge of what is considered London. We've spoken about this before, at length, and where you live is practically in Kent.

Why on earth would you move there and expect the infrastructure to be as good as somewhere nearer the centre? The transport system can't perform miracles, you know...

Exactly, but the thing is the proposed expanded zone is on my doorstep....

[2gins]

coldel said:

I presume also its cameras recording number plates. But the scale is huge, and you need to consider issues such as roads which are dead ends/cul-de-sacs that go out onto the north and south circular roads but are inside the zone. It would make no sense at all to camera these roads, some literally go inside the zone 50 metres then come to an end with a handful of houses on them, it would not be proper to charge these cars just to leave the end of their road each time they are used. I imagine we have plenty of debate to come on this at a council and political level before its finally decided on how it works.

Nonsense, they'll all be dragged in and it'll be £12.50 per day to take the car to the end of the road. The consultation was majority in favour you know, so that's the end of it.

[/socially just local politician]

[jfire]

C70R said:

But you're living on the very edge of what is considered London. We've spoken about this before, at length, and where you live is practically in Kent.

Why on earth would you move there and expect the infrastructure to be as good as somewhere nearer the centre? The transport system can't perform miracles, you know...

I expect he just expected to be able to drive a car before the ULEZ extended to practically Kent.

[C70R]

fatboy18 said:

C70R said:

fatboy18 said:

I think the term London is the problem, it needs to be defined better. When you have trains coming in from outside london and busses in the suburbs, it still ends up being wrapped up in London Public transport.

I live inside the M25 but in Surrey (not a London Borough).
Nights out in London are pretty much a no go because if you want to stay out late trains back to the local station don't run. then If you choose the underground the nearest station is still some 20 miles from my home so then its either a Black cab or mini cab. So that's another £30 quid

How is one supposed to do shopping? I would normally take a car to a large supermarket and do a weekly shop. How do people that actually live in London do this, does everyone have there shopping delivered? If so that's a whole bunch more of delivery vans traveling around isn't it?

Wait.

So are you saying that you live somewhere that isn't London, that isn't planned to ever be covered by the ULEZ, but you're worried about how you'll cope?

Yes and No, The LEZ is to start about 200 meters from my home, we then hear (I know its not right now but I'm sure it will be eventually rolled out) about making the inside of the M25 part of this scheme.
and although I currently live outside the affected Zone being a Handyman with a Van and Tools I work all over within the Zones and M25 area. So paying congestion charges etc I can't exactly load the whole of my van onto a Bus
Public transport around me is dire.

Are you referring to the 2021 extension to the ULEZ? Because the closest that the current ULEZ goes to Surrey is Vauxhall Bridge...

If it's really "200m" from your home, I'm intrigued as to what your edge case is.

The 2021 extension meets the London Borough of Hounslow, the London Borough of Wandsworth and the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames at its SW border. Which of those isn't in London?

[NomduJour]

The original LEZ is becoming more restrictive next year too.

[fatboy18]

Sorry, to clarify Low Emission Zone, (not Ultra)

[C70R]

jfire said:

C70R said:

But you're living on the very edge of what is considered London. We've spoken about this before, at length, and where you live is practically in Kent.

Why on earth would you move there and expect the infrastructure to be as good as somewhere nearer the centre? The transport system can't perform miracles, you know...

I expect he just expected to be able to drive a car before the ULEZ extended to practically Kent.

I don't know how the ULEZ or its extension is stopping anyone from driving a car?

I own two cars, and I drove them both in the current ULEZ this weekend just passed.

[C70R]

fatboy18 said:

Sorry, to clarify Low Emission Zone, (not Ultra)

Ah, right.

Sorry, I'm not particularly au fait with the LEZ. Other than knowing that it's been around for a decade and it doesn't affect me.

[NomduJour]

C70R said:

I own two cars, and I drove them both in the current ULEZ this weekend just passed.

You didn’t, because it only came into effect on Monday.

[635csi]

The inclusion of "young timer" classic petrol cars and bikes really pisses me off.
Clearly these few usually well maintained vehicles make no measurable difference to London's air quality.

What can you do though ...middle aged/class probably white air cooled Porsche owner versus telegenic choking poor kid,

That's the"optics" battle we are never going to win.