ULEZ charge in 2021
Discussion
cb1965 said:
All those who live and work in London and think the transport infrastructure is good ... I fear that is because your frame of reference is f**ked! I moved from Manchester to London a couple of years and in absolute terms it's utterly s
t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH 
Honestly, London has unbelievably good public transport - the only issue is that it is overloaded in peak hours. I was always a bit jaded about it, until 3 years ago I staggered out of a restaurant at 11:30 somewhere near Westfield. 20 minutes later I was opening my front door on the other side of town. It struck me that, short of a helicopter, nothing else could have done it faster. t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH The quality of public transport is IMO one of the root causes of London hoovering in economic activity. I’m working outside London at the moment, and the reason we can’t hire people is that they can’t easily get to work. They all want to work in London because travel is easier.
Not sure about Manchester, the last time was there (2 years ago) all the locals used cabs.
Those who were around at the time the Congestion Charge was introduced in London may be starting to sense an element of Deja Vue.
TFL contracted the running of the scheme to Capita. Capita, like Serco and Group 4 has a chequered record of success and failure. But all three companies manage to rise from the ashes of their disasters and get more government contracts.
When the Congestion Charge was started it cost TFL rather a lot. I'll quote a few paragraphs from the Congestion Charge Wiki.
"The London Assembly Budget Committee 2003 report on the company criticised the contract with Capita as not providing value for money.It was reported in July 2003 that TfL agreed to subsidise Capita by paying it £31 million because it was making no profits from the project, and that the most critical problem was the 103,000 outstanding penalty notices not paid.
In 2005, the Liberal Democrats claimed that Capita had been fined £4.5 million for missing the targets set for the congestion charge, that was equivalent to £7,400 for every day that the charge had existed.
In 2005, The Guardian obtained documentation under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 which showed that out of 65,534 penalty tickets issued to non UK-registered vehicles, only 1,993 had been paid."
I quote from the Press Release issued when Capita were granted the contract.
"This agreement is testament to Capita’s extensive expertise in the provision of technology led end-to-end customer management, and associated software and IT services. It further strengthens the long term strategic partnership between Capita and TfL to deliver mission-critical services across the London transport network. We look forward to playing an important role in implementing this key Mayoral initiative to meet emission objectives for London
Jon Lewis
CEO, Capita plc"
You have to laugh !!
Exam question for the next generation studying politics. "The introduction of ULEZ was put in safe hands. Discuss"
TFL contracted the running of the scheme to Capita. Capita, like Serco and Group 4 has a chequered record of success and failure. But all three companies manage to rise from the ashes of their disasters and get more government contracts.
When the Congestion Charge was started it cost TFL rather a lot. I'll quote a few paragraphs from the Congestion Charge Wiki.
"The London Assembly Budget Committee 2003 report on the company criticised the contract with Capita as not providing value for money.It was reported in July 2003 that TfL agreed to subsidise Capita by paying it £31 million because it was making no profits from the project, and that the most critical problem was the 103,000 outstanding penalty notices not paid.
In 2005, the Liberal Democrats claimed that Capita had been fined £4.5 million for missing the targets set for the congestion charge, that was equivalent to £7,400 for every day that the charge had existed.
In 2005, The Guardian obtained documentation under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 which showed that out of 65,534 penalty tickets issued to non UK-registered vehicles, only 1,993 had been paid."
I quote from the Press Release issued when Capita were granted the contract.
"This agreement is testament to Capita’s extensive expertise in the provision of technology led end-to-end customer management, and associated software and IT services. It further strengthens the long term strategic partnership between Capita and TfL to deliver mission-critical services across the London transport network. We look forward to playing an important role in implementing this key Mayoral initiative to meet emission objectives for London
Jon Lewis
CEO, Capita plc"
You have to laugh !!
Exam question for the next generation studying politics. "The introduction of ULEZ was put in safe hands. Discuss"
C70R said:
cb1965 said:
All those who live and work in London and think the transport infrastructure is good ... I fear that is because your frame of reference is f**ked! I moved from Manchester to London a couple of years and in absolute terms it's utterly st! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH
Credit where it's due, you're like a Bloodhound for any thread about London transport.t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH And every time, it's like a broken record, reaching for some hilarious justification for why it's terrible.
And I can't even dignify the comparison to Manchester with a reply. It's just hilarious.
I am simply pointing out that I returned to London for 2 years after living in Manchester (and for a time in Aus, Indonesia, Malaysia and USA) for over 30 years and therefore am judging the transport infrastructure on absolute terms not having been subject to conditioning by sole exposure and time. As I said your frame of reference is f
ked. It's not to do with how many tubes, buses, taxis etc. there are, it's to do with the quality and cost of the journeys and it's pretty much hell on earth no matter what system of transport you use. You will argue otherwise as you're a narcissist and never wrong but I couldn't give a damn what you think! At least I have lived and experienced other parts of the world and can speak from some experience as to why in absolute terms (you need to bear this bit in mind before one of your retorts about how great it is considering this, that and the next thing) it sucks!cb1965 said:
All those who live and work in London and think the transport infrastructure is good ... I fear that is because your frame of reference is f**ked! I moved from Manchester to London a couple of years and in absolute terms it's utterly st! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH
Thankfully you have moved out, so pat yourself on the back.t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH I have lived in quite a few places (Paris, Tokyo, London, Coventry, Portsmouth to mention a few) - obviously Tokyo public transport is second to none, astonishing. London is very good, it's busy during peak hours because there are 10 million people trying to move about so to be expected. Paris was very average, very pretty, but very average. As for Cov and Pompey, well it felt very much like local transport, underfunded and compared to London very irregular in terms of how often they ran.
Issues with London? Price is clearly an issue with poor decision making on suppliers by TFL to above inflation ticket rises each year with the promise of cutting costs that never come. In terms of performance, its hit and miss, 70-80 percent of the time its fine, otherwise not. But it is utterly unbelievable at what it does, which is move a huge amount of people around a busy city. I have friends who visit from the US and are blown away by how frequent the tubes run, literally every couple of minutes in peak times.
To call it ste is a bit vague, its certainly expensive, too expensive, its fairly reliable, but in terms of when it runs on time its is amazingly frequent and the breadth of transport you can get from peddle powered tuk tuks, to uber, to black cabs, to buses, boats, trains, tubes, etc. it is pretty good.
Issues with London? Price is clearly an issue with poor decision making on suppliers by TFL to above inflation ticket rises each year with the promise of cutting costs that never come. In terms of performance, its hit and miss, 70-80 percent of the time its fine, otherwise not. But it is utterly unbelievable at what it does, which is move a huge amount of people around a busy city. I have friends who visit from the US and are blown away by how frequent the tubes run, literally every couple of minutes in peak times.
To call it s
te is a bit vague, its certainly expensive, too expensive, its fairly reliable, but in terms of when it runs on time its is amazingly frequent and the breadth of transport you can get from peddle powered tuk tuks, to uber, to black cabs, to buses, boats, trains, tubes, etc. it is pretty good.cjt7777 said:
I don't usually post much but I this is something that has really irritated me. I now have to change my route to get to my gf which is absolutely ridiculous. In 2021 I won't even be able to drive where I currently live. The ULEZ is the last straw for me in terms of living in London - I already can't park where I live and of course everywhere is full of speed cameras. So, I've decided to move down south to a place with parking right outside the house!
Nobody is stopping you from driving. You're not reading it correctly, and being a bit hysterical.They are just asking you to make the choice between driving a low-polluting car, or paying for the privilege of not doing so.
Moving house seems hilariously melodramatic.
coldel said:
To call it ste is a bit vague, its certainly expensive, too expensive, its fairly reliable, but in terms of when it runs on time its is amazingly frequent and the breadth of transport you can get from peddle powered tuk tuks, to uber, to black cabs, to buses, boats, trains, tubes, etc. it is pretty good.
I'm sure there will be some bloke along from Wiltshire shortly, who visits London once a month for work, who will violently disagree with all of that.te is a bit vague, its certainly expensive, too expensive, its fairly reliable, but in terms of when it runs on time its is amazingly frequent and the breadth of transport you can get from peddle powered tuk tuks, to uber, to black cabs, to buses, boats, trains, tubes, etc. it is pretty good.For what it's worth, I'm pretty well travelled too, and I agree with everything you've said.
Killboy said:
cb1965 said:
All those who live and work in London and think the transport infrastructure is good ... I fear that is because your frame of reference is f**ked! I moved from Manchester to London a couple of years and in absolute terms it's utterly st! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH
Thankfully you have moved out, so pat yourself on the back.t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH Very strange behaviour.
Possibly linked to some kind of manic episode. Who knows?
C70R said:
cjt7777 said:
I don't usually post much but I this is something that has really irritated me. I now have to change my route to get to my gf which is absolutely ridiculous. In 2021 I won't even be able to drive where I currently live. The ULEZ is the last straw for me in terms of living in London - I already can't park where I live and of course everywhere is full of speed cameras. So, I've decided to move down south to a place with parking right outside the house!
Nobody is stopping you from driving. You're not reading it correctly, and being a bit hysterical.They are just asking you to make the choice between driving a low-polluting car, or paying for the privilege of not doing so.
Moving house seems hilariously melodramatic.
I was looking to move anyway so this tied in nicely - plus those country roads - damn!!!
C70R said:
Killboy said:
cb1965 said:
All those who live and work in London and think the transport infrastructure is good ... I fear that is because your frame of reference is f**ked! I moved from Manchester to London a couple of years and in absolute terms it's utterly st! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH
Thankfully you have moved out, so pat yourself on the back.t! Gone now thankfully although was working there today and it's still utterly st! HTH Very strange behaviour.
Possibly linked to some kind of manic episode. Who knows?
cb1965 said:
I didn't compare it to Manchester, you did.
I am simply pointing out that I returned to London for 2 years after living in Manchester (and for a time in Aus, Indonesia, Malaysia and USA) for over 30 years and therefore am judging the transport infrastructure on absolute terms not having been subject to conditioning by sole exposure and time. As I said your frame of reference is fked. It's not to do with how many tubes, buses, taxis etc. there are, it's to do with the quality and cost of the journeys and it's pretty much hell on earth no matter what system of transport you use. You will argue otherwise as you're a narcissist and never wrong but I couldn't give a damn what you think! At least I have lived and experienced other parts of the world and can speak from some experience as to why in absolute terms (you need to bear this bit in mind before one of your retorts about how great it is considering this, that and the next thing) it sucks!
Try answer this honestly. Did you live in these places? And if so, can you tell us how they are better than London?I am simply pointing out that I returned to London for 2 years after living in Manchester (and for a time in Aus, Indonesia, Malaysia and USA) for over 30 years and therefore am judging the transport infrastructure on absolute terms not having been subject to conditioning by sole exposure and time. As I said your frame of reference is f
ked. It's not to do with how many tubes, buses, taxis etc. there are, it's to do with the quality and cost of the journeys and it's pretty much hell on earth no matter what system of transport you use. You will argue otherwise as you're a narcissist and never wrong but I couldn't give a damn what you think! At least I have lived and experienced other parts of the world and can speak from some experience as to why in absolute terms (you need to bear this bit in mind before one of your retorts about how great it is considering this, that and the next thing) it sucks!I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
cjt7777 said:
C70R said:
cjt7777 said:
I don't usually post much but I this is something that has really irritated me. I now have to change my route to get to my gf which is absolutely ridiculous. In 2021 I won't even be able to drive where I currently live. The ULEZ is the last straw for me in terms of living in London - I already can't park where I live and of course everywhere is full of speed cameras. So, I've decided to move down south to a place with parking right outside the house!
Nobody is stopping you from driving. You're not reading it correctly, and being a bit hysterical.They are just asking you to make the choice between driving a low-polluting car, or paying for the privilege of not doing so.
Moving house seems hilariously melodramatic.
I was looking to move anyway so this tied in nicely - plus those country roads - damn!!!
Killboy said:
cb1965 said:
I didn't compare it to Manchester, you did.
I am simply pointing out that I returned to London for 2 years after living in Manchester (and for a time in Aus, Indonesia, Malaysia and USA) for over 30 years and therefore am judging the transport infrastructure on absolute terms not having been subject to conditioning by sole exposure and time. As I said your frame of reference is fked. It's not to do with how many tubes, buses, taxis etc. there are, it's to do with the quality and cost of the journeys and it's pretty much hell on earth no matter what system of transport you use. You will argue otherwise as you're a narcissist and never wrong but I couldn't give a damn what you think! At least I have lived and experienced other parts of the world and can speak from some experience as to why in absolute terms (you need to bear this bit in mind before one of your retorts about how great it is considering this, that and the next thing) it sucks!
Try answer this honestly. Did you live in these places? And if so, can you tell us how they are better than London?I am simply pointing out that I returned to London for 2 years after living in Manchester (and for a time in Aus, Indonesia, Malaysia and USA) for over 30 years and therefore am judging the transport infrastructure on absolute terms not having been subject to conditioning by sole exposure and time. As I said your frame of reference is f
ked. It's not to do with how many tubes, buses, taxis etc. there are, it's to do with the quality and cost of the journeys and it's pretty much hell on earth no matter what system of transport you use. You will argue otherwise as you're a narcissist and never wrong but I couldn't give a damn what you think! At least I have lived and experienced other parts of the world and can speak from some experience as to why in absolute terms (you need to bear this bit in mind before one of your retorts about how great it is considering this, that and the next thing) it sucks!I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
It's not worth the effort.
Killboy said:
Try answer this honestly. Did you live in these places? And if so, can you tell us how they are better than London?
I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
How can you know for certain, it's opinion not fact! What is fact is that London's transport infrastructure is crap in absolute terms. Yes there are mitigating circumstances, but it's still crap!I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
And yes of course I lived there, it is possible to live somewhere other than London you dolt!
cb1965 said:
Killboy said:
Try answer this honestly. Did you live in these places? And if so, can you tell us how they are better than London?
I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
How can you know for certain, it's opinion not fact! What is fact is that London's transport infrastructure is crap in absolute terms. Yes there are mitigating circumstances, but it's still crap!I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
And yes of course I lived there, it is possible to live somewhere other than London you dolt!
cb1965 said:
Killboy said:
Try answer this honestly. Did you live in these places? And if so, can you tell us how they are better than London?
I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
How can you know for certain, it's opinion not fact! What is fact is that London's transport infrastructure is crap in absolute terms. Yes there are mitigating circumstances, but it's still crap!I know for certain 3 of them are not, so would be good to see,or is this must more hot air from you again?
And yes of course I lived there, it is possible to live somewhere other than London you dolt!
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