VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
I think ORD is proving that not only do "petrolheads" firmly believe their cars produce fluffy kittens from their exhausts, but so also do the diesel engined trucks that deliver the extra fuel that we all choose to burn. 
Not at all. You really are a master of the strawman and whataboutism.
Monkeylegend said:
ORD said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:ORD said:
I find it extremely hard to feel sorry for people who will have a slightly less powerful nasty derv ecobox but have still driven a grossly polluting car and will never pay appropriate tax in that regard.
If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Tbh I think you're coming across as a bit silly. You drive a Porsche. The stuff that comes out the back of it isn't pleasant (half an hour in a confined space would prove that).If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Lecturing other people on pollution when you've deliberately chosen to drive a vehicle that pollutes, albeit in a different way, way more than you possibly need to, is simply rank hypocrisy.
You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum. But I am a million miles from being prepared to drive a diesel car in a city and pump NO2 and black carbon into people's lungs.
Another point - I pay enormous amounts in VED and petrol tax. Easily enough to offset all the CO2. Contrast miserly dervheads who pollute london to hell and barely pay any tax for doing so.
Love to see you getting so worked up, your life in London must be hellish thanks to us diesel users
Maybe if you didn't come across as being so pompous and patronising you would get a more sympathetic response, but those that think they know it all and can only accept one point of view usually end up getting abusive,as you are now.
That's when you start to lose credibility and with it the points you are trying to put over
It's your choice of car that results in you paying emormous amounts of VED and petrol tax. There is a very easy way of reducing it.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 14th October 19:17
Not everyone who drives a diesel is an eco-warrior (although many, my sister for one, are). It will be interesting to see what possible consequences VW face for this pollution and what act of good faith (for surely their marketing department will think it's a good idea) they come up with. The new VW forest perhaps???
Yes, I drive a 4.2 V8 petrol as a daily and bought it for cruising between scotland and Oxford.....no hypocrisy here because me buying a prius isn't going to do a damn bit of good with all the rest of the pollution going on in the world. If I'm going to destroy the world then lets have some good V8 music whilst we do so.
Fastdruid said:
It was from the paper you linked to previously!
Er, which one? 
IIRC it refers to London. I did notice from that a desire to set national policy from experiences based in London, which is a nonsense imo.Given the numbers of buses and taxis in London a figure of 11% for the private car surprises me, but even so that shows that 89% of nox is generated by moving ourselves and our goods about?
Pete317 said:
deaglecat said:
I got a letter today from VW. ... my car is affected.
Nowhere at all does it say "Sorry... we messed up" or acknowledge any wrong doing.
That lack of basic contrition compounds VW's shoddy business practices. These idiots deserve to be sued into bankruptcy.
...but not necessarily the thousands of people employed by and through themNowhere at all does it say "Sorry... we messed up" or acknowledge any wrong doing.
That lack of basic contrition compounds VW's shoddy business practices. These idiots deserve to be sued into bankruptcy.
kambites said:
Someone quoted 40% for diesel vehicles as a whole, so 11% for private cars sounds believable I guess.
That's 11% of the total NOx for diesel cars not private cars. Petrol cars according to the same doc make up 7% so private cars make up 18% of the total NOx. As I read it though that the 11% is based on *claimed* NOx, NOT actual NOx, ie working on the basis that there are x number of petrol cars and y number of diesel cars and they give off certain amounts each of NOx. That in reality diesels give off many times more NOx than the lab tests claim would imply that the real figures for diesel are far higher.
Fastdruid said:
That's 11% of the total NOx for diesel cars not private cars. Petrol cars according to the same doc make up 7% so private cars make up 18% of the total NOx.
As I read it though that the 11% is based on *claimed* NOx, NOT actual NOx, ie working on the basis that there are x number of petrol cars and y number of diesel cars and they give off certain amounts each of NOx. That in reality diesels give off many times more NOx than the lab tests claim would imply that the real figures for diesel are far higher.
But when you consider what is given off by taxis, vans, buses, coaches, hgvs, trains and even shipping, I think the contribution by the diesel private car must be small. As I read it though that the 11% is based on *claimed* NOx, NOT actual NOx, ie working on the basis that there are x number of petrol cars and y number of diesel cars and they give off certain amounts each of NOx. That in reality diesels give off many times more NOx than the lab tests claim would imply that the real figures for diesel are far higher.
Huh? We know from the TFL doc that it is either 11% (if that doc uses real world figures) or much more than that (if it doesn't).
I think there must be something wrong with the numbers if it suggests 7 per cent for petrol cars, as there are pretty much none of those in the most congested (and so polluted) parts of London. About 20% is my experience, if that.
I think there must be something wrong with the numbers if it suggests 7 per cent for petrol cars, as there are pretty much none of those in the most congested (and so polluted) parts of London. About 20% is my experience, if that.
ORD said:
Huh? We know from the TFL doc that it is either 11% (if that doc uses real world figures) or much more than that (if it doesn't).
I think there must be something wrong with the numbers if it suggests 7 per cent for petrol cars, as there are pretty much none of those in the most congested (and so polluted) parts of London. About 20% is my experience, if that.
So the numbers are wrong for diesel cars (too low) and wrong for petrol cars (too high)?I think there must be something wrong with the numbers if it suggests 7 per cent for petrol cars, as there are pretty much none of those in the most congested (and so polluted) parts of London. About 20% is my experience, if that.
Good lord, you're like a dog with a bone.
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