RE: TVR: Back in business (there's even a website)
Discussion
redgriff500 said:
loveice said:
As said C6 has all the 2011(2012) safety features and meets all the legislation in all the countries.
You really call 911 and Evora 2+2? If you really want to use those so called 2+2 to make a point, then shall we also compare the boots space? Sure C6 doesn't have two tiny useless seats behind. But it's extra boot's space is probably bigger than those seats.
Comparing Griff to C6 is a bit like compare a Westfield V8 to Griff...
But they are +2 without the seats you could cut out 2+ feet.You really call 911 and Evora 2+2? If you really want to use those so called 2+2 to make a point, then shall we also compare the boots space? Sure C6 doesn't have two tiny useless seats behind. But it's extra boot's space is probably bigger than those seats.
Comparing Griff to C6 is a bit like compare a Westfield V8 to Griff...
And I don't want a huge boot - a couple of sportsbags is all I ever need.
My point is I WANT a small V8 sportscar and I'm sure I'm not alone.
A current MX5 (albeit ugly) meets the safety regs and has the room to fit an LS - as people do.
I have seen the 911 with the LS V8 in the PH classifieds - and was very tempted.
TVR500Morgan said:
Dump an AJP8 ?? you can dump them all in my garage if you want. I'd rather have a Rover 500 engine all day, if you spent the money on that engine that you spend fitting and buying a brand new Chevy into it you could get 450BHP no problems and its an all aluminium engine. I really hope something good happens to TVR soon though
Correct me if I am wrong, but are not the LS GM motors all aluminium [ except the truck blocks ], I think the point is the LS3 is relatively unstressed at 430BHP and these motors can produce 750+BHP when modified and they have a proven record as a strong reliable engine
Let's face it.
Moleskin is the main (current ) reason why TVR as a brand is worth bobbins.
Given the reported history since he took over and all the associated BS since, Moleskin is main negative aspect to the brand.
If Dom of TVR Power was rejuvenating TVR off his own back, and managed to get the TVR brand for what it's worth (not much) then I think many people would be supporting it.
I used to use TVR Power for servicing repairs and upgrades when I had my Chimaera and would trust Dom a lot more to rebuild a car than any company run by Moleskin.
Moleskin is the main (current ) reason why TVR as a brand is worth bobbins.
Given the reported history since he took over and all the associated BS since, Moleskin is main negative aspect to the brand.
If Dom of TVR Power was rejuvenating TVR off his own back, and managed to get the TVR brand for what it's worth (not much) then I think many people would be supporting it.
I used to use TVR Power for servicing repairs and upgrades when I had my Chimaera and would trust Dom a lot more to rebuild a car than any company run by Moleskin.
loveice said:
redgriff500 said:
loveice said:
As said C6 has all the 2011(2012) safety features and meets all the legislation in all the countries.
You really call 911 and Evora 2+2? If you really want to use those so called 2+2 to make a point, then shall we also compare the boots space? Sure C6 doesn't have two tiny useless seats behind. But it's extra boot's space is probably bigger than those seats.
Comparing Griff to C6 is a bit like compare a Westfield V8 to Griff...
But they are +2 without the seats you could cut out 2+ feet.You really call 911 and Evora 2+2? If you really want to use those so called 2+2 to make a point, then shall we also compare the boots space? Sure C6 doesn't have two tiny useless seats behind. But it's extra boot's space is probably bigger than those seats.
Comparing Griff to C6 is a bit like compare a Westfield V8 to Griff...
And I don't want a huge boot - a couple of sportsbags is all I ever need.
My point is I WANT a small V8 sportscar and I'm sure I'm not alone.
A current MX5 (albeit ugly) meets the safety regs and has the room to fit an LS - as people do.
I have seen the 911 with the LS V8 in the PH classifieds - and was very tempted.
Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 15th November 08:00
300bhp/ton said:
GTRene said:
here is a much better list of the Nurburgring times, 252 cars and say that Z06 with a Z07 package did even a 7.22 and the ZR1 did a 7.19.63 but the Porsche GT2 RS did it in 7.18 
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.htm...
here a few of the first 61 till just over 7.50
Isn't the GT2 RS basically a road legal race car, which you are comparing to 100% road cars. Well done http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.htm...
here a few of the first 61 till just over 7.50
Looks like we are off and running once again.....Will bookmark this thread and come back in 30 days for a long read about "How the TVR brand/owners (EX and current) have been slung through the mud once again by the Russian (or previous owner)"
Should be a good read to get me though a cold winter month while my 3 TVRs are tucked away for the winter......
Once a year.......Wind up the PHers about TVR and watch the GONG show...
Should be a good read to get me though a cold winter month while my 3 TVRs are tucked away for the winter......
Once a year.......Wind up the PHers about TVR and watch the GONG show...
Oddball RS said:
300bhp/ton said:
GTRene said:
here is a much better list of the Nurburgring times, 252 cars and say that Z06 with a Z07 package did even a 7.22 and the ZR1 did a 7.19.63 but the Porsche GT2 RS did it in 7.18
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.htm...
here a few of the first 61 till just over 7.50
Isn't the GT2 RS basically a road legal race car, which you are comparing to 100% road cars. Well done http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.htm...
here a few of the first 61 till just over 7.50
Wiki said:
On May 4, 2010, an RS variant was announced to German dealers in Leipzig. The GT2 RS develops 620 PS (456 kW; 612 hp) and 700 N·m (516 lb·ft) of torque and weighs 70 kg (150 lb) less than the standard GT2, allowing for a top speed of 330 km/h (205 mph) and 0–100 km/h (0-62 mph) acceleration of 3.4 seconds.[5] The GT2 RS clocked a record-breaking time of 7 minutes and 18 seconds around the Nürburgring-Nordschleife track (claimed by Porsche), one of the fastest times in modern production car history.[6] However, this was performed on the shorter Nurburgring course, which is 232 meters shorter and Porsche is unwilling to show video proof. Given an average speed of 100MPH (160 km/h), this yields an addition 5.7 seconds, with a more typical allowance of 7 seconds. This would result in a range of 7:23-7:25, which is comparable to the 7:24 turned in by Horst von Saurma.
redgriff500 said:
I'm saying I'd like a modern Cobra - small (convertible or coupe) with a big V8 - like a TVR
A point that has been roundly missed by all the Corvette fanbois who seize every opportunity for a bit of hardcore evangelism.Don't get me wrong - I think Vettes are great. And very capable they are too. But they're not 'Cobra' type cars. They don't offer that intensity and directness of having a stonking big engine in a small, lightweight car that wraps around you and that can be punted around with little or no assistance on the controls. The 'Vettes natural competition is Astons and XK Jags, not TVR.
OK, the Cerbera is blurring the lines a bit as it's bigger and about 150 kg heavier than the typical TVR. Still appreciably smaller and a good 200 kgs under the lightest Corvette though.
And no, it has nowt to do with how much faster you can go around the Nordschleife.
In fact, that's as irrelevant as comparing the power rating of a single ended triode valve amplifier to that of a solid state power house. Different things, designed to do er... different things. 900T-R said:
A point that has been roundly missed by all the Corvette fanbois who seize every opportunity for a bit of hardcore evangelism.Don't get me wrong - I think Vettes are great. And very capable they are too. But they're not 'Cobra' type cars. They don't offer that intensity and directness of having a stonking big engine in a small, lightweight car that wraps around you and that can be punted around with little or no assistance on the controls. The 'Vettes natural competition is Astons and XK Jags, not TVR.
OK, the Cerbera is blurring the lines a bit as it's bigger and about 150 kg heavier than the typical TVR. Still appreciably smaller and a good 200 kgs under the lightest Corvette though.
And no, it has nowt to do with how much faster you can go around the Nordschleife.
In fact, that's as irrelevant as comparing the power rating of a single ended triode valve amplifier to that of a solid state power house. Different things, designed to do er... different things. And that's weight. TVR only kept the weight down by not having proper type approval and being exempt from many regulations.
In the case of something like the Cerbera, I've read that they generally weighed a fair bit more than TVR claimed. And usually with less HP than advertised too.
Ok a Corvette is heavier, but it's probably about as light as you are going to get a 2 seater V8 powered mass produced world market car to be in this day and age.
A Dodge Viper does a pretty good homage to the original Cobra, but they were around 1550kg with little more than an engine and 2 seats.
The only way you'll get lightweight these days is by:
a) building cars under exemption or IVA
b) combined with costly production techniques and materials
e.g.
Even if you took something like an MX-5, which currently weigh in at around 1150kg. Now add a V8 engine, a stronger gearbox, a bigger rear axle, you'll want some fatter tyres too, bigger brakes and due to the extra torque some additional chassis bracing. All in you can easily see 200-300kg worth of bits being added to it. And suddenly you're upto Corvette weight.
900T-R said:
So you wouldn't consider having your car serviced, repaired or upgraded by TVR Power either?
Let's face it - Smolenski owns the TVR brand. If he were going to sell it for a reasonable amount any time soon, he'd have done it back when there still was a reasonable chance of offloading it as a more or less going concern.
Dom has to pay a license fee to him for using the TVR name regardless of whether he is going to build new cars or not. The way I understand it, the only reason why the new TVR Motors site exists at all is because Dom wants TVR back and has been pestering Smolenski all the way to let him get on with the job. He's not the best of writers ;o) but it's clear he's as passionate about the brand as you and I. Maybe it's time for a little support and for being a little more inclusive (too many people on here who feel they own the brand because they're British and they bought a second hand Griff once upon a time) - given that the proposed modus operandum is the only viable and realistic option in the current climate unless the likes of BMW go and buy the lot (now that would really cause some vitriol from the diehard little Englanders out there!)...
TVR is it's '90s form as a PW-led empire are never to return. But even Wheeler himself knew that it wasn't going to sustainable that way...
A noble effort, but putting lots of eggs into someone elses basket there!Let's face it - Smolenski owns the TVR brand. If he were going to sell it for a reasonable amount any time soon, he'd have done it back when there still was a reasonable chance of offloading it as a more or less going concern.
Dom has to pay a license fee to him for using the TVR name regardless of whether he is going to build new cars or not. The way I understand it, the only reason why the new TVR Motors site exists at all is because Dom wants TVR back and has been pestering Smolenski all the way to let him get on with the job. He's not the best of writers ;o) but it's clear he's as passionate about the brand as you and I. Maybe it's time for a little support and for being a little more inclusive (too many people on here who feel they own the brand because they're British and they bought a second hand Griff once upon a time) - given that the proposed modus operandum is the only viable and realistic option in the current climate unless the likes of BMW go and buy the lot (now that would really cause some vitriol from the diehard little Englanders out there!)...
TVR is it's '90s form as a PW-led empire are never to return. But even Wheeler himself knew that it wasn't going to sustainable that way...
Would you trust Smellyenski?
Dave
300bhp/ton said:
In the case of something like the Cerbera, I've read that they generally weighed a fair bit more than TVR claimed.
Which I already took into account by assuming ~1,200 kg instead of the 1,100 kg factory quote. Still over 200 kgs lighter than the lightest (by about 100 kg) C6, the Z06 at 1,418 kg (plus whatever that one comes over manufacturer quote - they all do nowadays). 300bhp/ton said:
Ok a Corvette is heavier, but it's probably about as light as you are going to get a 2 seater V8 powered mass produced world market car to be in this day and age.
But that's irrelevant as I don't want a mass produced world market car for that and a thousand other reasons - what I'd want is a bespoke, hand built car that was made to comply with my preferences, not those of worldwide legislators and general customers. What is being proposed now is a Sagaris (or Tuscan 2, or whatever) with an LS3, built and registered through IVA, which will come in at well under 1,100 kg (maybe even nearer 1,000 as the LSx weighs less than a S6).
That's the only sort of car that would pique my interest to save up my pennies for, buy and keep for life - probably the last chance to get something remotely like this, too.
Ever seen a Sagaris parked next to a C6 'Vette. It's tiny in comparison. The Corvette is nice and as fast/capable as any TVR will likely eve be, but it feels big inside, there's huge leather armchairs and (IMO) overassisted steering - it is more like a normal car. Which, of course, is exactly the way it's intended to be given that it's a world market design selling in the tens of thousands...
300bhp/ton said:
A Dodge Viper does a pretty good homage to the original Cobra,
No, it doesn't. The Cobra was a big engine in a small car. The Viper is a big engine in a big car. Mr Whippy said:
A noble effort, but putting lots of eggs into someone elses basket there!
Would you trust Smellyenski?
Dave
Irrelevant. Obviously Dom trusts him to a degree that he's happy to continue to run a TVR franchise, and anything else isn't of my concern really. Would you trust Smellyenski?
Dave
Given that TVR Power is well established within the TVR community, if I were in the market for a new car I'd be happy to drive up to Coventry and hand over a five grand deposit on a new TVR with the rest of the amount due on delivery.
I agree that the endless stream of dilletantism from NS and his many announcements haven't exactly inspired confidence to say the least, and some of his dealings haven't been exactly mindful of the fact that pushing people about generally doesn't make them more willing to help you out, but I do think he's genuinely passionate about the brand and at 24 I'd very probably have screwed up just as badly.
900T-R said:
Which I already took into account by assuming ~1,200 kg instead of the 1,100 kg factory quote. Still over 200 kgs lighter than the lightest (by about 100 kg) C6, the Z06 at 1,418 kg (plus whatever that one comes over manufacturer quote - they all do nowadays).
The thing is, how do you actually make something like a Vette lighter? It's not really that big, and a lot of its lengths is the empty nose that gives the pointy shape.Ok you could probably loose a bit of the interior, but it's just a dash, 2 seats and some carpet. Not sure even with racing seats. You'd be able to save a huge amount.
900T-R said:
But that's irrelevant as I don't want a mass produced world market car for that and a thousand other reasons - what I'd want is a bespoke, hand built car that was made to comply with my preferences, not those of worldwide legislators and general customers.
That's fine, but it does make for a limited market that is likely getting harder to exploit.900T-R said:
300bhp/ton said:
A Dodge Viper does a pretty good homage to the original Cobra,
No, it doesn't. The Cobra was a big engine in a small car. The Viper is a big engine in a big car. 
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