RE: Driven: Toyota GT 86
Discussion
D200 said:
All I am saying is Clio cup = £17k, well, you can actually but them for approx £15k new on some places after discount. That is cheap. The GT86 could end up costing twice that. Not cheap.
What are you on about?!Edited by D200 on Wednesday 1st February 15:06
You're taking a FWD french hatchback, selecting the base model and taking a healthy discount off it, then comparing it to a £25 grand car, which you've taken the pleasure of rounding up to £30k.
Why don't you trade-in a nice '06 porsche boxster and practically get the clio for free?!
nickfrog said:
It's OK to compare used and new, I do it all the time and I am still alive, I stick it all on excel, make a few wild assumptions and it helps make a decision. For those who start insulting others because they do that, I wonder what their problem is ?
well I think one of these would stack up quite well on your little spreadsheet.I just think your concept of value for money is skewed. To my mind, a mass market shopping hatch with a big engine is not worth anywhere near as much as a proper little sports car on a bespoke platform. It's much cheaper because (a) it isn't as good and (b) the costs of development and tooling are spread over massive volumes. You can pay 25k for a Seat Leon Cupra, a RenaultSport Megane, a VW Golf GTi, an Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf, and to my mind this car is intrinsically worth more than any of those, as is evident from what it is possible to sell lower specced versions of them for.
D200 said:
Please paste the posts where EVERYONE was stating the above.
I.e. for every person who posted please paste the comments that stated all the above, starting with me
Please tell me where I said the car should have bigger wheels, some unnecessary aero, for lower profile tires, to be £10,000 cheaper
Don't soil your pants, flower. Pretty sure I didn't say You have, You have, You have, You have. I.e. for every person who posted please paste the comments that stated all the above, starting with me
Please tell me where I said the car should have bigger wheels, some unnecessary aero, for lower profile tires, to be £10,000 cheaper
gmh23 said:
D200 said:
All I am saying is Clio cup = £17k, well, you can actually but them for approx £15k new on some places after discount. That is cheap. The GT86 could end up costing twice that. Not cheap.
What are you on about?!Edited by D200 on Wednesday 1st February 15:06
You're taking a FWD french hatchback, selecting the base model and taking a healthy discount off it, then comparing it to a £25 grand car, which you've taken the pleasure of rounding up to £30k.
Why don't you trade-in a nice '06 porsche boxster and practically get the clio for free?!
As previously stated by lots of people here and elsewhere, people are saying this car - the Toyota GT 86 - is akin to a RWD Clio 200. This is what other people said not me, and by the way this is said as a complement. You can buy a Clio 200 [not a cheaper cup version but the standard Clio 200] - for £14,715 on the road. I very quickly checked one site and that the price that came up - have a look if you like. Then wait to you see how much a GT 86 Costs when it comes to the UK, look at the Autocar full UK road test 'price as tested' when this car comes out. I bet it won’t be a kick in the teeth off £30k as tested
But, to end this silliness, I take everything I ever said about the beautiful Toyota GT 86 which is unbelievably super phenomenally cheap – so cheap and I am going to buy one this summer and give the dealer a £2k tip as its just stupidly cheap at the given price
Rawwr said:
D200 said:
Please paste the posts where EVERYONE was stating the above.
I.e. for every person who posted please paste the comments that stated all the above, starting with me
Please tell me where I said the car should have bigger wheels, some unnecessary aero, for lower profile tires, to be £10,000 cheaper
Don't soil your pants, flower. Pretty sure I didn't say You have, You have, You have, You have. I.e. for every person who posted please paste the comments that stated all the above, starting with me
Please tell me where I said the car should have bigger wheels, some unnecessary aero, for lower profile tires, to be £10,000 cheaper
You still didn't show me where everyone else was stating all those things. And by replying and quoting me you were implying I was of the same view. But no one here is, that more for the 'Max Power' brigade
I have read every reply in this discussion and I just dont see where you are getting that from, that's all I am saying
DanDC5 said:
Have any costs actually been released from Toyota/Subaru yet? Or is everyone still working on a pure guessing game with regards to price?
Pure guessing yes. It was supposed to be 'less than £20k' initially, ie a couple of yrs ago
Then all sites saying it will be nearer £30k
Then toyota replied [as everyone was giving off stinks that the price has increased by 50%!!!] it will not be £30k but closer to £25k
Therefore, going by what Toyota themselves saying base model = £25k approx. And like all the jap car companies do, you will have a base one with povery spec for this listed price that no one will buy, or if you do it will be worth a lot less 2nd hand, and the decent spec one will be a few k more. And I am rounding up to £30k for fun
gmh23 said:
nickfrog said:
It's OK to compare used and new, I do it all the time and I am still alive, I stick it all on excel, make a few wild assumptions and it helps make a decision. For those who start insulting others because they do that, I wonder what their problem is ?
well I think one of these would stack up quite well on your little spreadsheet.Tempted to enter all sorts of permutations into my (not so little) spreadsheet.
nickfrog said:
Absolutely !!! I've been considering it for the past 2 years or so. Question is do I order new or wait for a year when they are(possibly)worth £20k ?
Tempted to enter all sorts of permutations into my (not so little) spreadsheet.
Why would you even consider buying one new when you can buy a 10 year old honda S2000 and have £20k left over?!Tempted to enter all sorts of permutations into my (not so little) spreadsheet.
gmh23 said:
nickfrog said:
Absolutely !!! I've been considering it for the past 2 years or so. Question is do I order new or wait for a year when they are(possibly)worth £20k ?
Tempted to enter all sorts of permutations into my (not so little) spreadsheet.
Why would you even consider buying one new when you can buy a 10 year old honda S2000 and have £20k left over?!Tempted to enter all sorts of permutations into my (not so little) spreadsheet.
Goodfella 555 said:
It is an important factor because if you're in a city at night trying to get about quickly without drawing too much attention to yourself it is a pain because you'll get some dipstick in a Golf, or similar.
Plus in a car that looks like a sports car its a bit embarrassing getting blown away by more practical cars.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think Subaru and Toyota have done the right thing by not prioritising straight line speed. Plus in a car that looks like a sports car its a bit embarrassing getting blown away by more practical cars.
There are so many ordinary modern cars that are properly quick in a straight line. Virtually every repmobile out there cracks 0-60 in significantly under 10 seconds these days and you can get diesel BMWs that will do so in barely more than half that. If the disptick in that Golf you mentioned happens to have an 'R' on his bootlid he'll be able to accelerate off the line about as quick as a 4-litre V8 TVR.
So going fast is easy and cheap. What's a lot more unusual is the combination of engaging handling and accessible limits.
Personally I think the only time I'd miss it is when overtaking. That said, 7-ish seconds to 60 is hardly glacial.
nickfrog said:
Why compare a 10 year old car to a new car ? I have an open mind but what a bizarre idea.
I'm clearly not being serious.....Aren't you familiar with the PH ritual, every time a new car is released, someone has to offer a ridiculous used alternative based purely on purchase price
D200 said:
But, to end this silliness, I take everything I ever said about the beautiful Toyota GT 86 which is unbelievably super phenomenally cheap – so cheap and I am going to buy one this summer and give the dealer a £2k tip as its just stupidly cheap at the given price
You and your winkies overestimate the value of your posts. Just because you only recently registered on here, you think there hasn't been literally dozens of pages of the same posts over several threads during the past year or two? If you had read the articles and the other threads properly, took notice of the design philosphy of the car and its target market, considered the costs of manufacturing bespoke platforms, compared the car to its direct competitors, realised that concept cars have never been production ready, noticed that macroeconomic events in the past few years have not gone in the UK's (or Ireland's) favour compared to Japan, you might have realised the real value of your contributions so far.
gmh23 said:
nickfrog said:
Why compare a 10 year old car to a new car ? I have an open mind but what a bizarre idea.
I'm clearly not being serious.....Aren't you familiar with the PH ritual, every time a new car is released, someone has to offer a ridiculous used alternative based purely on purchase price
Chris71 said:
Personally I think the only time I'd miss it is when overtaking. That said, 7-ish seconds to 60 is hardly glacial.
Indeed - if it has 200bhp and 1200kg, power to weight will be around 169bhp/ton. Better than a Focus ST, Civic Type-R, MINI Cooper S, Clio 200 Cup, Golf GTi, etc. That used to be a lot - it's all that a Sierra Cosworth had. Things may have moved on in terms of what you can get, but it's still more than you need.otolith said:
Chris71 said:
Personally I think the only time I'd miss it is when overtaking. That said, 7-ish seconds to 60 is hardly glacial.
Indeed - if it has 200bhp and 1200kg, power to weight will be around 169bhp/ton. Better than a Focus ST, Civic Type-R, MINI Cooper S, Clio 200 Cup, Golf GTi, etc. That used to be a lot - it's all that a Sierra Cosworth had. Things may have moved on in terms of what you can get, but it's still more than you need.(yes I know this means I'm not a proper driver or something
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