RE: Subaru BRZ vs Toyota GT86
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
s m said:
Could well be the case, I don't know.
Interests me though that sometimes a car will be delivered on Brand A...then partway through production they'll switch to Brand B ( eg Prius on 17" Michelins then 17" Toyo ). It must have some effect on the car ( you only have to look at tyre tests to see difference in laptimes, dry handling, wet handling for same car on different makes ) but how often do they tweak settings to adjust? I'm sure the development testers will have a preference though.
I guess Porsche/Lotus pursue this more than some with recommended fitments.
Most manufacturers will tune the tyre to suit the car.Interests me though that sometimes a car will be delivered on Brand A...then partway through production they'll switch to Brand B ( eg Prius on 17" Michelins then 17" Toyo ). It must have some effect on the car ( you only have to look at tyre tests to see difference in laptimes, dry handling, wet handling for same car on different makes ) but how often do they tweak settings to adjust? I'm sure the development testers will have a preference though.
I guess Porsche/Lotus pursue this more than some with recommended fitments.
People have varying degrees of sensitivity and give-a-toss towards the effects of tyre choice on how the car feels to drive. I would imagine that the Porsche and Lotus owners buying OEM spec tyres are more fussy about that kind of thing than most and more likely to (a) notice the difference and (b) care. Most people are happy so long as the car doesn't fall off the road, and I would imagine that includes most Prius buyers.
s m said:
When Lotus did the fwd Elan ( admittedly low volume ) didn't they end up with a bespoke Michelin tyre for it ( MXX?? or a similar designation? ). I worked with a guy who had one from new and there were always supply difficulties with that tyre....cue much head scratching from Lotus dealers and HQ when they were asked to recommend an alternative fitment.
It would be interesting to know if Toyota did indeed test lots of tyres and come to the same conclusion as for the Prius on 17s ( big coincidence as disparate cars ) or whether their hand was forced to take the Primacy that they had a deal on and adjust the car around them? I like reading about car development stuff like that so perhaps it will be written down somewhere.
I bet when they come up for tyre renewal there will be some interesting effects of fitting the cheapest tyres available/changing wheel/tyre sizes etc as opposed to sticking OE size.
I'm awaiting the Autocar project one with interest as they're fitting 888s on lightweight wheels, tweaking suspension etc and comparing to standard car so look forward to the reports
I've asked the question to Michelin. I'm also hoping to put a little group test together on an 86 / BRZ for replacement tyre characteristics. Plan is in it's early stages but it will be really interesting if it comes through.It would be interesting to know if Toyota did indeed test lots of tyres and come to the same conclusion as for the Prius on 17s ( big coincidence as disparate cars ) or whether their hand was forced to take the Primacy that they had a deal on and adjust the car around them? I like reading about car development stuff like that so perhaps it will be written down somewhere.
I bet when they come up for tyre renewal there will be some interesting effects of fitting the cheapest tyres available/changing wheel/tyre sizes etc as opposed to sticking OE size.
I'm awaiting the Autocar project one with interest as they're fitting 888s on lightweight wheels, tweaking suspension etc and comparing to standard car so look forward to the reports
s m said:
By tyre pressure differences do you mean? Or subtle carcass/compound variations such as 'BMW fitment'/'Merc fitment'/'Porsche fitment' etc?
The latter, and it's not just limited to Porsche. Even BMW / Merc / Honda etc can make changes to the tyres you'd describe as more than minor.s m said:
Could well be the case, I don't know.
Interests me though that sometimes a car will be delivered on Brand A...then partway through production they'll switch to Brand B ( eg Prius on 17" Michelins then 17" Toyo ). It must have some effect on the car ( you only have to look at tyre tests to see difference in laptimes, dry handling, wet handling for same car on different makes ) but how often do they tweak settings to adjust? I'm sure the development testers will have a preference though.
I guess Porsche/Lotus pursue this more than some with recommended fitments.
German premium brands do this: look for the symbols on the sidewall. Many a chassis engineer has revealed the huge lengths they go to in working with the tyre chaps to get the rubber right. Interests me though that sometimes a car will be delivered on Brand A...then partway through production they'll switch to Brand B ( eg Prius on 17" Michelins then 17" Toyo ). It must have some effect on the car ( you only have to look at tyre tests to see difference in laptimes, dry handling, wet handling for same car on different makes ) but how often do they tweak settings to adjust? I'm sure the development testers will have a preference though.
I guess Porsche/Lotus pursue this more than some with recommended fitments.
For this reason, unless I knew what I was doing, I'd always buy OE recommended. OE it is then...
Y'know what, this whole thing has just got boring.
Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
10 Pence Short said:
Y'know what, this whole thing has just got boring.
Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I feel exactly the same every time there's yet another article about a 911 or BMW saloon. Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
jon- said:
s m said:
When Lotus did the fwd Elan ( admittedly low volume ) didn't they end up with a bespoke Michelin tyre for it ( MXX?? or a similar designation? ). I worked with a guy who had one from new and there were always supply difficulties with that tyre....cue much head scratching from Lotus dealers and HQ when they were asked to recommend an alternative fitment.
It would be interesting to know if Toyota did indeed test lots of tyres and come to the same conclusion as for the Prius on 17s ( big coincidence as disparate cars ) or whether their hand was forced to take the Primacy that they had a deal on and adjust the car around them? I like reading about car development stuff like that so perhaps it will be written down somewhere.
I bet when they come up for tyre renewal there will be some interesting effects of fitting the cheapest tyres available/changing wheel/tyre sizes etc as opposed to sticking OE size.
I'm awaiting the Autocar project one with interest as they're fitting 888s on lightweight wheels, tweaking suspension etc and comparing to standard car so look forward to the reports
I've asked the question to Michelin. I'm also hoping to put a little group test together on an 86 / BRZ for replacement tyre characteristics. Plan is in it's early stages but it will be really interesting if it comes through.It would be interesting to know if Toyota did indeed test lots of tyres and come to the same conclusion as for the Prius on 17s ( big coincidence as disparate cars ) or whether their hand was forced to take the Primacy that they had a deal on and adjust the car around them? I like reading about car development stuff like that so perhaps it will be written down somewhere.
I bet when they come up for tyre renewal there will be some interesting effects of fitting the cheapest tyres available/changing wheel/tyre sizes etc as opposed to sticking OE size.
I'm awaiting the Autocar project one with interest as they're fitting 888s on lightweight wheels, tweaking suspension etc and comparing to standard car so look forward to the reports
.
10 Pence Short said:
Y'know what, this whole thing has just got boring.
Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
But they are RWD, which makes them infinitely more interesting than any FWD hot hatch.Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
s m said:
Kozy said:
Spotted a TV advert for the GT86 last night, quite suprised to see that actually!
Saw the one that's a bit like a video game ad on Friday night about 11:20 on Film4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLThzvsPCkI
Debaser said:
10 Pence Short said:
Y'know what, this whole thing has just got boring.
Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
But they are RWD, which makes them infinitely more interesting than any FWD hot hatch.Neither car is especially light, powerful or ground breaking. They're just middle of the road mediocrity dressed up in a sea of anticipation and media frenzy.
I don't dislike either nor do I retain a lingering desire to ever drive one.
Quite how so many lines of text have been written over such vehicles I'll never know and, yes, I do understand the irony in my posting these thoughts...
Dave Hedgehog said:
s m said:
Kozy said:
Spotted a TV advert for the GT86 last night, quite suprised to see that actually!
Saw the one that's a bit like a video game ad on Friday night about 11:20 on Film4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLThzvsPCkI
jon- said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
s m said:
Kozy said:
Spotted a TV advert for the GT86 last night, quite suprised to see that actually!
Saw the one that's a bit like a video game ad on Friday night about 11:20 on Film4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLThzvsPCkI
ajprice said:
Just on looks, I prefer the BRZ. The front end looks better to me, and I'd rather have the silver dashboard than the fake plastic carbon fibre pattern.
The Subaru's simplicity appealed to me. Others liked the detail of the Toyota. Each to their own: it's the fundamental strength of this car that both can work. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff