RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman
Discussion
It is relevant to compare new v used.
My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.
I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.
I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....
My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.
I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.
I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....
Redlake27 said:
It is relevant to compare new v used.
My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.
I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.
I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....
stick space savers on an AMG My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.
I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.
I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....
Dave Hedgehog said:
apples and oranges
Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy
Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
Are you suggesting we helicopter him in to remotest Yorkshire and ask him to find his way to Stuttgart?Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy
Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
CJP80 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
apples and oranges
Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy
Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
Are you suggesting we helicopter him in to remotest Yorkshire and ask him to find his way to Stuttgart?Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy
Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
Redlake27 said:
It is relevant to compare new v used.
My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
.
But compare used v used? Did you consider a 996 Turbo?My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
.
Some Gump said:
... And 50% plus of ph think you have it wrong, and so like the video.
Running costs:
Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).
Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.
For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).
So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
Hilarious that 200bhp and a tad over 7secs is 'SO SLOW'. Good post though.Running costs:
Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).
Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.
For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).
So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
Well after umpteen different threads and hundreds of posts I think it's fair to say that the GT86 is indeed a fine car if comparisons are being made between a £25k and nigh on £50k sports car.
Sure the Cayman has more of everything but I should bloody think so if you're going to shell out £50k for a new one and from what I could see, Chris actually preferred the Toyota (by a smidge).
Ultimately we're only talking about this now as the GT86 is brand new but in another 12-24 months time we'll be discussing why you would ever buy a used Cayman when you can have a used GT86 for £15k
Sure the Cayman has more of everything but I should bloody think so if you're going to shell out £50k for a new one and from what I could see, Chris actually preferred the Toyota (by a smidge).
Ultimately we're only talking about this now as the GT86 is brand new but in another 12-24 months time we'll be discussing why you would ever buy a used Cayman when you can have a used GT86 for £15k
Finally, somebody else agrees that it's not all about having buckets of power! Realistically, on a journey, having an extra 100+bhp isn't going to make much of a difference at all to the journey times. Having fun on the public road is getting harder and harder, so if the Toyota can serve it up without needing to be going too far beyond the limit of most prosecution areas good on it!!
stew-S160 said:
Great video as usual Chris. Infact, damn brilliant video. Seeing the cars mid air & sideways, proper hoonage.
The GT86 just looks great on the road.
Agreed all the way. Best of all where I am (here in Texas) the Toyota (or Scion FRS as it known in these here parts) is only about £16k drive away. Although the Porsche is really wonderful, this Toyota really stacks up as the best all round choice as my own upcoming sporty car purchase next year :-)The GT86 just looks great on the road.
Tyrewrecker said:
CJP80 said:
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.
Not sure it would if you 'get it'. ie the car is fun.In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.
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