RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman

RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman

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Discussion

Redlake27

2,255 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
It is relevant to compare new v used.


My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.

Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.

I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.

I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....

Dave Hedgehog

14,587 posts

205 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
It is relevant to compare new v used.


My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.

Costs: 2 rear tyres: £500 Front Brake Pads and sensors £120. One service £450.

I'm OK with that. Stay away from the high margin Porsche centres and use one of the dozens of recommended independents and the costs can be kept sane.

I was tempted to go to a GT86 as it could've been more fun than the Cayman more of the time, but this feature has convinced me not to change. I will just buy smaller wheels and skinnier tyres....
stick space savers on an AMG wink

CJP80

1,097 posts

149 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
apples and oranges

Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy

Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
Are you suggesting we helicopter him in to remotest Yorkshire and ask him to find his way to Stuttgart?

Dave Hedgehog

14,587 posts

205 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
CJP80 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
apples and oranges

Top Gear is a Michael Bay film, its car related entertainment, disengage brain, go on a hour long car based roller coaster ride, don't take it seriously, enjoy

Monkey and Evo's Harry are doing factual car nerd TV, they are David Attenborough in cars, although Monkey has some Bear Grylls chucked in for good measure (noble and atom at the ring)
Are you suggesting we helicopter him in to remotest Yorkshire and ask him to find his way to Stuttgart?
yes

Fittster

20,120 posts

214 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
It is relevant to compare new v used.


My 57 Cayman S cost 27,500 with just 9000 miles 2 years ago. 20,000 miles later it is worth 22,000. I think that is acceptable depreciation. If I'd bought a new Z (or even a hot hatch) it would have shed 10-12k.
.
But compare used v used? Did you consider a 996 Turbo?

CJP80

1,097 posts

149 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
The 996 turbo is 4wd and is not that rewarding to drive.

Ryan9078

17 posts

143 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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When Chris thinks "Exciting" I think " Oh S*** what am I going to tell the Mrs"

I have a slight balls/talent deficiency I think? I'll leave the vids to you Chris

Tyrewrecker

6,419 posts

155 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Some Gump said:
... And 50% plus of ph think you have it wrong, and so like the video.
Running costs:

Cayman service 300 / year. (bi annual, 400 quid minor / 800 quid major alternating)
Mot 30 quid a year.
Mpg (book) 28 odd. Reality prob c. 24 mixed plus hooning.
Tyres 800 quid a set (biggest cost), prob 1 set ever 2 years.
Insurance say 900 per year.
Tax 245 (55 is pre 450 quid/year)
Depreciation over 3 years est 17k down to 10, or 2350 a year.
Total roughly 4200 ish a year plus 24mpg. For the finance bods, 17k capitol employed (this isn't a ph finance post).

Gt86
Servicing 200 quid a year? Annual intervals. (Watch out for plug changes, service manual says thats an ngine out job)
Mpg (book) 38. In reality, probably 30 or just below, because it's so slow you'll be ragging it everywhere.
Tyres 600 quid a set, same assumptions as above.
Tax 215 per year (325 / year but first year in the 28k)
Insurance roughly 600 per year
Depreciation over 3 years probably 28k down to ?? 15? Hard to estimate esp with the possibility of engine out plug changes scaring people off faster than the letters i, m and s.. So 5 k per year.
Total roughly 6300 a year, plus a presumed 6 mpg benefit. 28k capitol employed.

For the gt86 to have lower running costs, you'd need to see residuals after 3 years itro 19 - 20k, which is simply never going to happen. Jst look at other cool jap sports cars, lie the 370z (currentky the 17k 7500 mile 1 owner one sets a pretty nice benchmark).

So yeah, phers do care about running costs. Many people have probably done the maths, and concluded that if they were thnking gt86 is a good option, the cayman would be worth a look. That is why so many people asked for this exact video.
Hilarious that 200bhp and a tad over 7secs is 'SO SLOW'. Good post though.

Northern Munkee

5,354 posts

201 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Makes me want a used cayman S.

edo

16,699 posts

266 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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cayman s from main dealer with now standard 2 year opc warranty. less depreciation, better sound, better car.

Fatman2

1,464 posts

170 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Well after umpteen different threads and hundreds of posts I think it's fair to say that the GT86 is indeed a fine car if comparisons are being made between a £25k and nigh on £50k sports car.

Sure the Cayman has more of everything but I should bloody think so if you're going to shell out £50k for a new one and from what I could see, Chris actually preferred the Toyota (by a smidge).

Ultimately we're only talking about this now as the GT86 is brand new but in another 12-24 months time we'll be discussing why you would ever buy a used Cayman when you can have a used GT86 for £15k

GTmuse

41 posts

177 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Finally, somebody else agrees that it's not all about having buckets of power! Realistically, on a journey, having an extra 100+bhp isn't going to make much of a difference at all to the journey times. Having fun on the public road is getting harder and harder, so if the Toyota can serve it up without needing to be going too far beyond the limit of most prosecution areas good on it!!

CJP80

1,097 posts

149 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Tyrewrecker said:
Hilarious that 200bhp and a tad over 7secs is 'SO SLOW'. Good post though.
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.

MadDog1962

892 posts

163 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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stew-S160 said:
Great video as usual Chris. Infact, damn brilliant video. Seeing the cars mid air & sideways, proper hoonage.
The GT86 just looks great on the road.
Agreed all the way. Best of all where I am (here in Texas) the Toyota (or Scion FRS as it known in these here parts) is only about £16k drive away. Although the Porsche is really wonderful, this Toyota really stacks up as the best all round choice as my own upcoming sporty car purchase next year :-)

stephen300o

15,464 posts

229 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Used Toyota is the way to go.

kambites

67,661 posts

222 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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It would be a bit of a shock if the Porsche wasn't the best car, given that it's not far off twice the price.

kambites

67,661 posts

222 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
CJP80 said:
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.
I can't imagine why you'd be racing them in the first place?

Bill Carr

2,234 posts

235 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
I really enjoyed that video, thanks Chris. It seems you have really gelled with the ethos of the car. I'm not in the position to buy one new but it looks like an interesting - and fun - alternative to other lardy/over-grippy choices.

Tyrewrecker

6,419 posts

155 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
CJP80 said:
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.
Not sure it would if you 'get it'. ie the car is fun.

BrewsterBear

1,507 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Tyrewrecker said:
CJP80 said:
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.
Not sure it would if you 'get it'. ie the car is fun.
Ah, but I do get "get it" but I still can't bring myself to buy one despite my commute being perfect for it. 45 miles each way of rural A and B-roads over the Lincolnshire Wolds. Twisties, off-camber corners, long sweeping bends, dips and brows plus enough well sighted areas to overtake all of which would be immense fun if you had the road to yourself.

In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.