RE: In depth: new Range Rover

[greggy50]

My boss turned up in a 62 plate 5.0 supercharged full fat today he clearly does not give a flying fk about depreciation and said he will just get the new one when it comes out

[2.5pi]

unrepentant said:

X5 buyers never buy FFRR's. Used Sports maybe..

Jeez it is possible to like and buy both FFRR and X5's , I have had both , X5 was better onroad and RR better off road, much prefer idrive to all that touchscreen malarkey tho'

Cheers

Ps new RR has me interested

[Schermerhorn]

If my life depended on it, I'd take the Land Cruiser 4.5 V8 diesel. Yes it is not as cool but you get the feeling you wouldnt break down in the middle of the Sahara and not be without water for too long wheras the opposite is the frightening bit in a RR.

[Reardy Mister]

The silence is deafenIng.

[ridds]

[Jordan Rich]

[CY88]

[Reardy Mister]

Pr1964 said:

For a 7 seater 4x4 the X5 is about as good as it gets in terms of style size and on road performance I don't think it has ever been considered an offroader not even by BMW it's always been a 4x4 road car, see it more as a large lancia integrale / Subaru imprezza it's 4x4 is only there to help with its on road manners.

But yes it's a compromise car I wouldn't be seen dead in a people carrier and there are no estate cars with 7 forward facing seats.

I just think the RR is going to end up with a smaller and smaller share of a market which is now full of other often more appealing options. Eg the cayenne.
They remain focused on things which new and previous potential owners these days consider are just not needed.
In the 9-10 years I've had 4x4's my previous being an Mercedes ML I have never gone off road or had a need to engage locking diffs or low range and that's probably true of 99% of 4x4 owners.
What's happened is the market has moved on from buyers wanting an capable 4x4 the market is now more focused on on road manners and practical issues like boot space and accommodation . The target buyers are probably owners of people carriers who need a large car which can carry a family like the Audi Q7 Mercedes GL and X5 these are the 4x4s which I see everywhere these days.

The RR just isn't particularly clever "except in its off road ability".

A missed opportunity to make a more rounded product for the current expanded market .

I see what you're saying but I think you're forgetting two things:

• The Range Rover Sport
• and the LR only make offroaders. They are softening (Evoque) but the core of the brand is still having a significant off road capability.

I don't understand your frustration. To me, you're in a different market from the one you're exasperated about.
The feature you think is surplus is actually the RRs USP. The full-fat Rangie is in a class of exactly one. That you don't see any benefit in it is exactly why you don't have one, it's not suited to your needs.

Edited by Reardy Mister on Saturday 8th September 08:44

[anonymous-user]

Pr1964 said:

The target buyers are probably owners of people carriers who need a large car which can carry a family like the Audi Q7 Mercedes GL and X5 these are the 4x4s which I see everywhere these days.

The RR just isn't particularly clever "except in its off road ability".

A missed opportunity to make a more rounded product for the current expanded market .

Discovery and Freelander cover the family aspects.

[CRB1]

Tuesday 04.09.2012 6.55 pm, M5 J19 roundabout(Royal Portbury Dock/Portishead) car transporter with 8 white LR Freelanders sold to the world heading out of the UK, marvellous. That's what LR are all about these days. And by the time the fifth generation RR is out, they'll probably have a factory in China. Best of luck to them. This country needs more exporters like them. The demand from abroad is what is pushing up the price, pure supply and demand.

My take on reliability is based on:
1) 137400 miles in a second generation RR 'Carin', a very limited run of 25 cars in 1997. LR were not keen to sell me the car because it had a Sat Nav system that, initially did not cover SW England. But I wanted the car because it looked well, "a million dollars". And it made me feel that way when driving. BUT reliability from about 70000 miles onwards was not good.
2) Roll forward to 2006 and our third generation RR SC has now done 104000. Problems.....
Space left blank because there have been none. Mr reliability I'm afraid. I suppose the only thing to report is that the rear offside door doesn't shut properly anymore because ssssshhh.... the wife attempted to reverse out through the gate with the door wide open.
CRACK!
Remarkable the door still shuts at all. Its not perfect anymore but any other door would have been left hanging!
So 241000 miles done, a fortune spent on fuel, I was hoping I would not want another one....
The wife won't need ANY persuading. Better fuel economy. Lighter. Better. Oh *hit!

[Rocksteadyeddie]

CRB1 said:

Tuesday 04.09.2012 6.55 pm, M5 J19 roundabout(Royal Portbury Dock/Portishead) car transporter with 8 white LR Freelanders sold to the world heading out of the UK, marvellous. That's what LR are all about these days. And by the time the fifth generation RR is out, they'll probably have a factory in China. Best of luck to them. This country needs more exporters like them. The demand from abroad is what is pushing up the price, pure supply and demand.

My take on reliability is based on:
1) 137400 miles in a second generation RR 'Carin', a very limited run of 25 cars in 1997. LR were not keen to sell me the car because it had a Sat Nav system that, initially did not cover SW England. But I wanted the car because it looked well, "a million dollars". And it made me feel that way when driving. BUT reliability from about 70000 miles onwards was not good.
2) Roll forward to 2006 and our third generation RR SC has now done 104000. Problems.....
Space left blank because there have been none. Mr reliability I'm afraid. I suppose the only thing to report is that the rear offside door doesn't shut properly anymore because ssssshhh.... the wife attempted to reverse out through the gate with the door wide open.
CRACK!
Remarkable the door still shuts at all. Its not perfect anymore but any other door would have been left hanging!
So 241000 miles done, a fortune spent on fuel, I was hoping I would not want another one....
The wife won't need ANY persuading. Better fuel economy. Lighter. Better. Oh *hit!

Exporters are generally good for the economy. However, consider that LR is effectively just an "offshore" (for them) manufacturing plant for an Indian owned parent. We benefit from the employment but the cash will all flow back to India. That's not to say that the UK do not benefit from these things but lets not fool ourselves that this is the same as a UK manufacturer and exporter in terms of benefit.

[whoami]

Pr1964 said:

I just think JLR have missed a trick and played it too cautiously and that'll be their downfall in a market which is now full of competition.
it's a bit dull and predictable ..... And too FAT.

Surely the massive waiting list for the new RR indicates otherwise?

[JonnyVTEC]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Exporters are generally good for the economy. However, consider that LR is effectively just an "offshore" (for them) manufacturing plant for an Indian owned parent. We benefit from the employment but the cash will all flow back to India. That's not to say that the UK do not benefit from these things but lets not fool ourselves that this is the same as a UK manufacturer and exporter in terms of benefit.

Not really the full story, there's a massive UK supplier network with large JLR orders sending money to UK moneybox aswell as JLR profits returned to UK in R&D projects.

[anonymous-user]

Schermerhorn said:

If my life depended on it, I'd take the Land Cruiser 4.5 V8 diesel. Yes it is not as cool but you get the feeling you wouldnt break down in the middle of the Sahara and not be without water for too long wheras the opposite is the frightening bit in a RR.

I have one, it broke down.

[mrloudly]

JonnyVTEC said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Exporters are generally good for the economy. However, consider that LR is effectively just an "offshore" (for them) manufacturing plant for an Indian owned parent. We benefit from the employment but the cash will all flow back to India. That's not to say that the UK do not benefit from these things but lets not fool ourselves that this is the same as a UK manufacturer and exporter in terms of benefit.

Not really the full story, there's a massive UK supplier network with large JLR orders sending money to UK moneybox aswell as JLR profits returned to UK in R&D projects.

We've just bought another factory and taken four more guys on, mostly on the back of JLR work. Having a company like them operate, and do well, in the UK has HUUUUGGGEEEE benefits to us all!

[WhereamI]

JonnyVTEC said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Exporters are generally good for the economy. However, consider that LR is effectively just an "offshore" (for them) manufacturing plant for an Indian owned parent. We benefit from the employment but the cash will all flow back to India. That's not to say that the UK do not benefit from these things but lets not fool ourselves that this is the same as a UK manufacturer and exporter in terms of benefit.

Not really the full story, there's a massive UK supplier network with large JLR orders sending money to UK moneybox aswell as JLR profits returned to UK in R&D projects.

The only cash that will flow back to India is if JLR declares a dividend that is paid to it's shareholder(s). In the normal course of the business everything will remain in the UK and as anyone who drives past the building work next to the M54 will be able to see, a lot if not all of the profits are being reinvested in the UK.

[M Powered]

Pr1964 said:

...lack of technical excellence...
...old hat and the recipe needed adjusting...
...the competition is so far ahead ...

But I have got a new 7 seater X5, so I would say all that.

May be you missed the all Aluminium Monocoque Body, or the Automatic Terrain Response, or the Meridian Audio system? In fact, I would highly recommend a visit to the dealer when these are in, just to listen to the Meridian stereo - it's absolutely epic!

[audidoody]

greggy50 said:

My boss turned up in a 62 plate 5.0 supercharged full fat today he clearly does not give a flying fk about depreciation and said he will just get the new one when it comes out

£1,000-plus a month business lease/contract hire (I'd guess) deductible from corporation tax. His own cash stays in the business/personal account (or wherever). Not his car though!

[audidoody]

greggy50 said:

My boss turned up in a 62 plate 5.0 supercharged full fat today he clearly does not give a flying fk about depreciation and said he will just get the new one when it comes out

£1,000-plus a month business lease/contract hire (I'd guess) deductible from corporation tax. His own cash stays in the business/personal account (or wherever). Not his car though!

[audidoody]

greggy50 said:

My boss turned up in a 62 plate 5.0 supercharged full fat today he clearly does not give a flying fk about depreciation and said he will just get the new one when it comes out

£1,000-plus a month business lease/contract hire (I'd guess) deductible from corporation tax. His own cash stays in the business/personal account (or wherever). Not his car though!