RE: Alfa Romeo 4C - first official pictures

[Pulse]

kambites said:

IMO using CF for this is a huge mistake.

Yep.

Not only does it push the price of the car up, but it also makes insurance premiums more, and makes the car more difficult to repair.

[robsco]

Alfahorn said:

I find it amazing people are so quick to judge a product when so little information is known.

The fact that we're talking about Alfa Romeo just magnifies the situation. Making judgments, spouting cliches and massaging stereotypes long before anybody has any real world experience of the car is par for the course where Alfa are involved. To say they are an "enthusiast's" brand, they certainly get very little support on here.

[Stingercut]

I love Alfas, really hope this improves their rep, wish it had around 350hp though. The new Alfa Spider looks stunning.

[nickfrog]

Pulse said:

kambites said:

IMO using CF for this is a huge mistake.

Yep.

Not only does it push the price of the car up, but it also makes insurance premiums more, and makes the car more difficult to repair.

Fair enough but I wouldn't want a bent aluminium chassis repaired at all, that's for sure.

[Pulse]

nickfrog said:

Pulse said:

kambites said:

IMO using CF for this is a huge mistake.

Yep.

Not only does it push the price of the car up, but it also makes insurance premiums more, and makes the car more difficult to repair.

Fair enough but I wouldn't want a bent aluminium chassis repaired at all, that's for sure.

That's a good point, actually...

[otolith]

nickfrog said:

Fair enough but I wouldn't want a bent aluminium chassis repaired at all, that's for sure.

I think an Elise with chassis damage is generally a write-off.

I think the other options might have meant an uncompetitive power to weight ratio or a spartan interior or higher emissions than Alfa want. I wonder how the tooling costs play out for a relatively low volume car.

[V6Alfisti]

Macgeek over at AO (who has been very close to this project) has confirmed the pics are real but have have a lot of digital post-production, even confirmed the date it was shot (February 6th) with a Hasselblad H3DII-39 by Aldo Ferrero.

(Now that's some detail!)

For me, I would need to see how the headlights look in real life and the same for what the production interior looks like. Either way I am not a new car buyer, but this looks like a super car if the dynamics are right.

Edited by V6Alfisti on Tuesday 12th February 23:00

[nickfrog]

otolith said:

I wonder how the tooling costs play out for a relatively low volume car.

I think that's the fascinating bit. I may be wrong but for decent volumes like Audi A2, Jaguars etc... aluminium is cost effective but super low volume it's not because of the high entry fee / fixed cost so they well may have been in a situation where CF wasn't actually that much more expensive (it's more material expensive but less capital expensive - if the autoclave is big enough!) and obviously was a USP. I wonder where the tub is made but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in Italy which has very specialised regional areas of expertise in particular technologies. A lot of high end CF bike frames come from Italy I think.

I am out of my depth so maybe someone knows more about this.

[otolith]

It was suggested that Dallara would be building it.

[boxerTen]

scholesy said:

I'm sad this can't have a v engine like a sporty Alfa should, looks OK but it needs an engine that suits the Alfa badge to really command anywhere near £50,000!

Absolutely agree. The heart of a sports car is the engine. Competing with Porsche at this level does not mean competing with the Cayman or the Boxster, it means competing with the boxer six. That requires a bespoke purpose-built engine. An ordinary engine from one's own range, or Toyota's, won't suffice. TVR at least understood this, Lotus never has and therein lies their main problem in moving up-market. Alfa likely knows better but can't afford it.

[chickensoup]

Purpose built engine is for top trumps - you can get a Lamborghini engine in an Audi!

Launch edition 4c at over £50K might keep out the speculators, and allow drivers to buy

Just needs to handle. Very Elise like is size, needs to be a much nicer place to sit than an Exige S (elise) cabin

Wonder what a MY2014 Elise will look like as a rival

[Alfahorn]

robsco said:

Alfahorn said:

I find it amazing people are so quick to judge a product when so little information is known.

The fact that we're talking about Alfa Romeo just magnifies the situation. Making judgments, spouting cliches and massaging stereotypes long before anybody has any real world experience of the car is par for the course where Alfa are involved. To say they are an "enthusiast's" brand, they certainly get very little support on here.

True, I feel like I'm fighting against the tide, even from some people who profess their affections for the brand.

[Veeayt]

I'm gonna buy this

[PascalBuyens]

A3tdi said:

GroundEffect said:

Well it sounds you're the ideal customer for a Mustang or Camaro - don't care about much else than BHP/cylinders per £. The redneck coefficient, if you will

Lol most probably.

Try a modern Camaro, you'd be surprised how well it handles...

[PascalBuyens]

Alex said:

How many incorrect apostrophes can you get in one post?

4?

[PascalBuyens]

Niffty951 said:

Before this turns into a £ per lb/ft argument can I just ask who would honestly put there own money down on a tiny plastic fiat with a generic tuneless 1.8ltr engine. If it was the same pound for pound as the Cayman (needs no introduction)?

I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!

If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter

Erhm... How many Elises S1 were sold? They had a "generic tuneless" 1.8 Rover lump in it, and was/is way more fun than most 1.8ltr cars out there...

[Pulse]

PascalBuyens said:

Niffty951 said:

Before this turns into a £ per lb/ft argument can I just ask who would honestly put there own money down on a tiny plastic fiat with a generic tuneless 1.8ltr engine. If it was the same pound for pound as the Cayman (needs no introduction)?

I mean besides being purposely awkward or obtuse. Why/who?!?!

If it's a rwd beautiful equivilent to my Mini or an characterfull alternative to an M135 or Gt86 then it is a completely different proposal and suddenly appears the devilish italian temptress of the bunch but in the real world money does matter

Erhm... How many Elises S1 were sold? They had a "generic tuneless" 1.8 Rover lump in it, and was/is way more fun than most 1.8ltr cars out there...

But the S1 Elise wasn't £50k. I'm not saying I disagree, but I'm just adding that in.

[TA14]

Cyrus1971 said:

£50K for a 240 Bhp engine in 1000 KG - sure I can get that elsewhere + more besides from Porsche

Ok, which Porsche can I buy for £50K that weighs no more than a tonne?

[stephen300o]

I imagine people will let you out at junctions in one of these, another thing it has over Porsche.

[otolith]

boxerTen said:

Competing with Porsche at this level does not mean competing with the Cayman or the Boxster, it means competing with the boxer six.

It's not competing directly with anything Porsche make on anything but price - it has a four cylinder engine because it is a lightweight car, and Porsche don't make any of those. That isn't to say they won't both end up on the same buyer's shortlists, rather that they aren't attempting to be the same sort of thing.