RE: Alfa Romeo 4C: Review

RE: Alfa Romeo 4C: Review

Author
Discussion

s m

23,504 posts

209 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
ewand said:
A stiff, (somewhat compromised), mid-engine, turbo 4-banger, 2 seat, lightweight, low, coupe with no PAS...

Alfa seems to have come up with a recipe that Lotus tried with the 2006 Europa S ;-) Only 100kgs lighter and only 15 bhp more than the 225 versions ... yet quite a lot more expensive.
An Italian VX220 Turbo with a hard top. I wonder if a mag will compare the two in a sort of new vs used test

kambites

68,309 posts

227 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
s m said:
An Italian VX220 Turbo with a hard top. I wonder if a mag will compare the two in a sort of new vs used test
An Italian Lotus Europa SE, then. The 4C is slightly more powerful and probably slightly lighter, though.

braddo

11,156 posts

194 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
s m said:
ewand said:
A stiff, (somewhat compromised), mid-engine, turbo 4-banger, 2 seat, lightweight, low, coupe with no PAS...

Alfa seems to have come up with a recipe that Lotus tried with the 2006 Europa S ;-) Only 100kgs lighter and only 15 bhp more than the 225 versions ... yet quite a lot more expensive.
An Italian VX220 Turbo with a hard top. I wonder if a mag will compare the two in a sort of new vs used test
I think there will be a few key differences -
  • access will be better in the Alfa (though maybe not by much)
  • there is more space between the seats so it will feel less cramped with 2 people on board
  • refinement levels will be a long way above Elise deriatives.

As others have said, this car seems to bridge the gap between Elise and Cayman.

s m

23,504 posts

209 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
kambites said:
s m said:
An Italian VX220 Turbo with a hard top. I wonder if a mag will compare the two in a sort of new vs used test
An Italian Lotus Europa SE, then. The 4C is slightly more powerful and probably slightly lighter, though.
A bit more poke but I'll be impressed if the Alfa is lighter than 930kg road ready

errek72

943 posts

252 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
gonzales_turbo said:
errek72 said:
To further the "V6" debate, for those that think the current figures would be only be possible for a light (?) turbo four pot and could not be achieved by an N/A V6 because of weight issues : these are the performance figures for the Diva on its wikipedia page : "The car has top speed of 270 km/h (168 mph) and can accelerate from zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in five seconds." So near-identical. No mention of weight though.
It's the CO2 figures that could not by any means be achieved without a turbo four pot. Not enough margin to trick the EC testing without a turbo or hybrid system.
And new car buyers pay dearly for those extra CO2. In France, you're looking at more than 10% of the list price in additional taxes alone (about 5k£), in Belgium, half that and I'm sure it's the same more or less anywhere. You can only ignore these taxes in the >100k£ market, maybe even more.
Correct. For Belgium the sum is : Exige V6 S is 10 000 Euro more expensive, plus special registration taks of about 4000, plus about 1000 extra road tax per year, compared to an Elise supercharged CR or 4C (I generalised the numbers a bit). So without looking at what you would get for it when selling it, a five year ownership would give a difference of 19000 Euro, for 100hp extra, handshift, downforce and the best ESP out there.

I can see now where they see the room for a Maserati version.

OutOfSync

220 posts

145 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
Ignorant question coming up - what is the difference between "dry" and "wet" weight?

RobM77

35,349 posts

240 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
OutOfSync said:
Ignorant question coming up - what is the difference between "dry" and "wet" weight?
Wet (aka "kerb weight") includes fluids (engine oil, engine coolant, gearbox oil if applicable, PAS pump if applicable and windscreen washer if applicable) and battery. Dry is without any of those things.

chickensoup

469 posts

261 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
Cabin on the 4C is a much nicer place than the v6 exige, makes it a proper car rather than a toy IMHO

macajc88

112 posts

167 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
I was at Frankfurt last week and this was the car of the show for me.

Hoping second hand values will creep into my price range in 3 years time!

Kolbenkopp

2,345 posts

157 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
errek72 said:
Correct. For Belgium the sum is : Exige V6 S is 10 000 Euro more expensive
Hm, German prices look a bit different. The Exige (no options except AC) costs € 68.300, the Elise S (with "comfort" pack) goes for € 48.910. Alfa 4C is €50.500. In comparison that's pretty good value for money.

BTW, looking a the 4C price list I noticed that the audio/sat nav system, the AC and the heated and leccy mirrors are no cost options. Anyone care to guess what that weighs? 70 kg? So they just declare the heavy stuff optional and bingo, target weight reached smile. Still a very interesting car though.



DuckAvenger

327 posts

139 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
http://4c.alfaromeo.com/

Never seen configurator like this before. Video configurator...

otolith

58,722 posts

210 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
Kolbenkopp said:
BTW, looking a the 4C price list I noticed that the audio/sat nav system, the AC and the heated and leccy mirrors are no cost options. Anyone care to guess what that weighs? 70 kg? So they just declare the heavy stuff optional and bingo, target weight reached smile. Still a very interesting car though.
They have a thing or two to learn from the Germans, who would offer a special lightweight edition (at a premium price) with these items stripped out and then charge you to put them back in again.

Edited by otolith on Monday 23 September 18:04

kambites

68,309 posts

227 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
DuckAvenger said:
http://4c.alfaromeo.com/

Never seen configurator like this before. Video configurator...
What a dull selection of colours.

s m

23,504 posts

209 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all

Esseesse

8,969 posts

214 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
s m said:
Yes, just watched this... and now it has become private. hehe

s m

23,504 posts

209 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
s m said:
Yes, just watched this... and now it has become private. hehe
Yes, strangely they changed the link as well

http://youtu.be/U-Z-bQNluD4

Lowtimer

4,293 posts

174 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all

wemorgan

3,583 posts

184 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
braddo said:
As others have said, this car seems to bridge the gap between Elise and Cayman.
Whilst it may bridge the gap I suspect that there are quite a few buyers who no longer consider Lotus a serious OEM, so will disregard the Elise all together. I hope Lotus' fortunes will improve, but until then, I see that the 4C will take quite a few sales off past/present Lotus owners.

errek72

943 posts

252 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
Kolbenkopp said:
Hm, German prices look a bit different. The Exige (no options except AC) costs € 68.300, the Elise S (with "comfort" pack) goes for € 48.910. Alfa 4C is €50.500. In comparison that's pretty good value for money.

BTW, looking a the 4C price list I noticed that the audio/sat nav system, the AC and the heated and leccy mirrors are no cost options. Anyone care to guess what that weighs? 70 kg? So they just declare the heavy stuff optional and bingo, target weight reached smile. Still a very interesting car though.
I was factoring in a few extra's on the 4C, mind ;-)



Ali_T

3,379 posts

263 months

Monday 23rd September 2013
quotequote all
I doubt it's anything like 70kg. I remember the AC unit in an EP3 Civic was 25 kg. Head unit? 5kg or so? The other electric stuff is pointless.