Brake want to ban hands free phones
Discussion
Hiijinx said:
Maybe I'm just another crap multitasker but I can't talk on the phone and concentrate on whats on TV or listen to someone else in the room so wouldn't want to know what I would be like on the road...
same here - I've lost count of the junctions missed when talking to people sat next to me. I avoid talking on the phone in the car at all cost. I'm honest about it, and at some level challenge peoples assumption they can do both with no effect.
sparkyhx said:
Hiijinx said:
Maybe I'm just another crap multitasker but I can't talk on the phone and concentrate on whats on TV or listen to someone else in the room so wouldn't want to know what I would be like on the road...
same here - I've lost count of the junctions missed when talking to people sat next to me. I avoid talking on the phone in the car at all cost. I'm honest about it, and at some level challenge peoples assumption they can do both with no effect.
I don't think anyone claims to suffer no effects, but if on hands-free then a sensible multi-tasker will suspend communicating if he/she needs to change lanes to overtake, read a road sign, negotiate a junction or whatever. They'll also make a point of checking surroundings every few moments.
It will not be an in-depth technical or emotional discussion. A sensible hands-free user wouldn't engage in that.
It is entirely feasible and perfectly safe to pass simple messages back and forth whilst suspending fancy driving for a brief moment and habitually checking mirrors and blind spots, and if approaching a section of road where there is a heavier volume of traffic or some feature to negotiate then the driver will ask the other person to hold the line.
It's just simple time management, and nothing that any half-way competent driver couldn't do.
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic. You're more likely to crash a car than a plane so I'd suggest that anyone who couldn't handle the stresses of a few hours' flying lessons has no business on roads in a car.
It will not be an in-depth technical or emotional discussion. A sensible hands-free user wouldn't engage in that.
It is entirely feasible and perfectly safe to pass simple messages back and forth whilst suspending fancy driving for a brief moment and habitually checking mirrors and blind spots, and if approaching a section of road where there is a heavier volume of traffic or some feature to negotiate then the driver will ask the other person to hold the line.
It's just simple time management, and nothing that any half-way competent driver couldn't do.
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic. You're more likely to crash a car than a plane so I'd suggest that anyone who couldn't handle the stresses of a few hours' flying lessons has no business on roads in a car.
jamieduff1981 said:
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic.
You'll never do that with the likelihood of a car or person suddenly stepping/pulling out on you though.rallycross said:
The worrying thing about brake is they seem to achieve a disproportionally high level of publicity with their crazy suggestions.
What motorists need is a similar organisation that promotes the other view, to help balance things out.
The motorist has no voice, what we need is something like PH to combine with RAC to promote an alternative view.
We have. It's called ABD. Google itWhat motorists need is a similar organisation that promotes the other view, to help balance things out.
The motorist has no voice, what we need is something like PH to combine with RAC to promote an alternative view.
heebeegeetee said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic.
You'll never do that with the likelihood of a car or person suddenly stepping/pulling out on you though.jamieduff1981 said:
Anything can be a distraction.
The problem is not things which can distract, but drivers who allow themselves to be distracted when they cannot afford it.
What is required is the banning of drivers who are incapable of telling the difference between a situation where they can afford to divide their attention and when they cannot.
I'd more happily see drivers with poor prioritisation abilities banned before telephones or any other tool of their ineptitude. Those sorts will always find something to take their mind off where it needs to be at the worst possible time.
^^^ThisThe problem is not things which can distract, but drivers who allow themselves to be distracted when they cannot afford it.
What is required is the banning of drivers who are incapable of telling the difference between a situation where they can afford to divide their attention and when they cannot.
I'd more happily see drivers with poor prioritisation abilities banned before telephones or any other tool of their ineptitude. Those sorts will always find something to take their mind off where it needs to be at the worst possible time.
But it would be hard to Police so it wouldn't happen
A quick call to the wife when stationary in traffic is 100% safe - yet is illegal on a hand held
Yet a complex business call when doing 70 on the Mway is legal - which is ridiculous.
jamieduff1981 said:
I don't think anyone claims to suffer no effects, but if on hands-free then a sensible multi-tasker will suspend communicating if he/she needs to change lanes to overtake, read a road sign, negotiate a junction or whatever. They'll also make a point of checking surroundings every few moments.
It will not be an in-depth technical or emotional discussion. A sensible hands-free user wouldn't engage in that.
It is entirely feasible and perfectly safe to pass simple messages back and forth whilst suspending fancy driving for a brief moment and habitually checking mirrors and blind spots, and if approaching a section of road where there is a heavier volume of traffic or some feature to negotiate then the driver will ask the other person to hold the line.
It's just simple time management, and nothing that any half-way competent driver couldn't do.
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic. You're more likely to crash a car than a plane so I'd suggest that anyone who couldn't handle the stresses of a few hours' flying lessons has no business on roads in a car.
I don't disagree - but how do you police a 'i'll be home at six' against a technical in depth discussion. The law is a blunt instrument, it can only say its allowed or not. and with todays cars coming equiped with bluetooth etc it would be almost impossible to police hands free, even though I think it would probably be a good idea.It will not be an in-depth technical or emotional discussion. A sensible hands-free user wouldn't engage in that.
It is entirely feasible and perfectly safe to pass simple messages back and forth whilst suspending fancy driving for a brief moment and habitually checking mirrors and blind spots, and if approaching a section of road where there is a heavier volume of traffic or some feature to negotiate then the driver will ask the other person to hold the line.
It's just simple time management, and nothing that any half-way competent driver couldn't do.
Everyone should do a few flying lessons. They'll get taught how to jot down notes from ATC whilst checking a map, scanning instruments and keeping their head on a swivel out the windows for other traffic. You're more likely to crash a car than a plane so I'd suggest that anyone who couldn't handle the stresses of a few hours' flying lessons has no business on roads in a car.
operating a phone and operating a sat nav or mp3 player to me is the same so I don't know why they have singled them out. However the issue with the phone for me is not its operation, but the attention it takes to have a conversation. My sat nav pretty much stops me using it when I'm moving -
V8RX7 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Anything can be a distraction.
The problem is not things which can distract, but drivers who allow themselves to be distracted when they cannot afford it.
What is required is the banning of drivers who are incapable of telling the difference between a situation where they can afford to divide their attention and when they cannot.
I'd more happily see drivers with poor prioritisation abilities banned before telephones or any other tool of their ineptitude. Those sorts will always find something to take their mind off where it needs to be at the worst possible time.
^^^ThisThe problem is not things which can distract, but drivers who allow themselves to be distracted when they cannot afford it.
What is required is the banning of drivers who are incapable of telling the difference between a situation where they can afford to divide their attention and when they cannot.
I'd more happily see drivers with poor prioritisation abilities banned before telephones or any other tool of their ineptitude. Those sorts will always find something to take their mind off where it needs to be at the worst possible time.
But it would be hard to Police so it wouldn't happen
A quick call to the wife when stationary in traffic is 100% safe - yet is illegal on a hand held
Yet a complex business call when doing 70 on the Mway is legal - which is ridiculous.
I watched a BBC journalist cover this story and was pretty shocked at what I saw, they put her on a simulator whilst filming her and she answered a hands free call and having a conversation....which led her to be swerving accross the road, driving on the wrong side of the road and coming out the lane of corners...it looks so false it was unreal! I could not believe my eyes...but then again, I guess it would not back up their story if she got in and drove it fine 
sparkyhx said:
Hiijinx said:
Maybe I'm just another crap multitasker but I can't talk on the phone and concentrate on whats on TV or listen to someone else in the room so wouldn't want to know what I would be like on the road...
same here - I've lost count of the junctions missed when talking to people sat next to me. I avoid talking on the phone in the car at all cost. I'm honest about it, and at some level challenge peoples assumption they can do both with no effect.
Vipers said:
sparkyhx said:
Hiijinx said:
Maybe I'm just another crap multitasker but I can't talk on the phone and concentrate on whats on TV or listen to someone else in the room so wouldn't want to know what I would be like on the road...
same here - I've lost count of the junctions missed when talking to people sat next to me. I avoid talking on the phone in the car at all cost. I'm honest about it, and at some level challenge peoples assumption they can do both with no effect.
Poster #1 accepts "Maybe I'm a crap multitasker".
Poster #2: "So am I but I'm not convinced that people who say they can multitask really can".
Poster #3: "Those who say they can multitask think they are driving gods, but can't really".
I can't juggle. Too many things going on at once. It doesn't mean that no one can juggle. Nor do I disbelieve people who say they can juggle.
Greg66 said:
Vipers said:
sparkyhx said:
Hiijinx said:
Maybe I'm just another crap multitasker but I can't talk on the phone and concentrate on whats on TV or listen to someone else in the room so wouldn't want to know what I would be like on the road...
same here - I've lost count of the junctions missed when talking to people sat next to me. I avoid talking on the phone in the car at all cost. I'm honest about it, and at some level challenge peoples assumption they can do both with no effect.
Poster #1 accepts "Maybe I'm a crap multitasker".
Poster #2: "So am I but I'm not convinced that people who say they can multitask really can".
Poster #3: "Those who say they can multitask think they are driving gods, but can't really".
I can't juggle. Too many things going on at once. It doesn't mean that no one can juggle. Nor do I disbelieve people who say they can juggle.
For the non multi taskers - do you insist your passengers sit in silence ?
I chat to my young daughters all the way to and from school sometimes hitting a heady 50mph
As I said earlier in the thread, I find it extraordinarily difficult to concentrate on my driving to a satisfactory standard whilst on the phone, so now I rarely use the phone when driving.
Same as the posters above, I am aware of my shortcoming and behave appropriately, but the big problem is that there will be tens of thousands of others out there the same as me but cheerfully and legally carry on chatting away on the phone whilst driving when they REALLY shouldn't be.
There have been countless independent studies conducted where handsfree phone use was shown to be as bad as being drunk for many people.
It is in no way comparable to chatting to passengers in the distraction stakes which is what people here are choosing to ignore. Passengers subconsciously adjust their conversation to the driving situation that the driver is in (eg shutting up during roundabouts and overtakes etc)
I have no idea what the answer is. I'm reluctant to say just ban phones altogether.
Same as the posters above, I am aware of my shortcoming and behave appropriately, but the big problem is that there will be tens of thousands of others out there the same as me but cheerfully and legally carry on chatting away on the phone whilst driving when they REALLY shouldn't be.
There have been countless independent studies conducted where handsfree phone use was shown to be as bad as being drunk for many people.
It is in no way comparable to chatting to passengers in the distraction stakes which is what people here are choosing to ignore. Passengers subconsciously adjust their conversation to the driving situation that the driver is in (eg shutting up during roundabouts and overtakes etc)
I have no idea what the answer is. I'm reluctant to say just ban phones altogether.
For me, I often find talking on a handheld phone quite all-consuming, especially if it's hard to hear, as my brain shuts out everything around to focus on the voice in my ear.
I've just got a car with built in bluetooth, and the few times I've used it I've been surprised how naturally it works. I think that because the sound is coming externally my brain doesn't shut out the world as it can when I'm on a handheld (and I don't mean driving with a handheld).
There's a separate issue of what the phone call is. I wouldn't want a work phone call whilst driving as that'd easily take attention away from then road, but a chat with my sister is fine.
I saw a TV thing once trying to show how dangerous phones and driving were by asking people maths questions through a hands free whilst they drove in a simulator and showing they got distracted. I thought at the time that it would have been just as distracting if a passenger asked those questions. And I think that's the same with hands free. I wouldn't want a work call whilst driving, but I wouldn't want a work meeting with a passenger whilst driving either for the same reason.
So I think Brake would need to ban passengers as well as hands free if they wanted to be consistent.
I've just got a car with built in bluetooth, and the few times I've used it I've been surprised how naturally it works. I think that because the sound is coming externally my brain doesn't shut out the world as it can when I'm on a handheld (and I don't mean driving with a handheld).
There's a separate issue of what the phone call is. I wouldn't want a work phone call whilst driving as that'd easily take attention away from then road, but a chat with my sister is fine.
I saw a TV thing once trying to show how dangerous phones and driving were by asking people maths questions through a hands free whilst they drove in a simulator and showing they got distracted. I thought at the time that it would have been just as distracting if a passenger asked those questions. And I think that's the same with hands free. I wouldn't want a work call whilst driving, but I wouldn't want a work meeting with a passenger whilst driving either for the same reason.
So I think Brake would need to ban passengers as well as hands free if they wanted to be consistent.
Edited by AJB on Tuesday 19th November 20:13
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