RE: Ford Focus RS: Review
Discussion
Splats said:
differentials and wheels when they are not required - this is inefficient.
From what I gather, the 4WD on the RS isn't reactive in so much that the trigger for clutch lock up isn't necessary wheel slip. I believe it can pre-close the clutches based on other parameters. The most obvious example of this is when launch control is selected.
Yes, it is like the past two Haldex generations in this regard. They are all preemptive, and not purely reactive, despite the fact that this article would have you think the Focus is revolutionary here.From what I gather, the 4WD on the RS isn't reactive in so much that the trigger for clutch lock up isn't necessary wheel slip. I believe it can pre-close the clutches based on other parameters. The most obvious example of this is when launch control is selected.
Legacywr said:
How long before somone 'stuffs' it in Drift Mode? 
Is there any more chance of that happening than someone in a RWD losing it?From description it seems quite controlled how it allows the rear to come around and hold the front wheels powering rather than just being a pivot point will no doubt help.
Of course someone will stuff it genuine accident or by being a tool - that will then also bring about a million MEME's on the web of the drift button being to blame....
scherzkeks said:
Yes, it is like the past two Haldex generations in this regard. They are all preemptive, and not purely reactive, despite the fact that this article would have you think the Focus is revolutionary here.
Very few things in the world these days are truly new or revolutionary. Pretty much every new "eureka" moment or idea can be traced back to the past. If you compared a modern turbo engine to a turbo engine of broadly the same capacity from the 1980s, which would be better? The modern engine would almost certainly be more powerful, with a greater band of torque, more economical, more reliable and provide a greater degree of drive-ability. At a basic level though, they are doing the same thing based on the mechanical principles.Nobody is saying that Ford have re-invented 4WD - I'm not even sure that's something that could even be done. You can't reinvent the wheel; make it more 'round' somehow, so I don't see how you could re-invent 4WD.
What Ford have done (it seems) is progress the technology such that it is better than they systems that have gone before it. I think it's clear from the earlier reviews that the Twinster system is significantly better than most [all] Haldex based systems. It's possibly even better than S-AYC, although I've seen no comparison.
As a footnote to the above, the next question is why is it better. The mechanicals are slightly different and are an evolution of established ideas; I'm willing to bet the reason it's better and the reason 4WD systems will continue to get better is in the code. Hours and hours and hour of honing, testing and refining code to get the best from the mechanical infrastructure.
In reality, or at least in my humble hands, Haldex remains very much reactive despite improvements. So fine for basic traction management but that's it. It's entirely possible that Ford have cracked it through coding or simply thanks to the hardware solution detailed in this thread or the other by someone who seem to genuinely understand rather than through w
kerage on the Haldex website.
Systematically criticizing the writers who dare say something is better than Haldex is pathetic as this also include Harris, Lomas etc. Amusing when it comes from the same Haldex fanboy every time. Entertaining though.
kerage on the Haldex website.Systematically criticizing the writers who dare say something is better than Haldex is pathetic as this also include Harris, Lomas etc. Amusing when it comes from the same Haldex fanboy every time. Entertaining though.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Not as horrible as the MK1's!
Maybe things were tight after developing their 4WD system.
Or perhaps some common sense seeing as it's developed on a platform that came out in 2011, of course the facelift came out before this car and will benefit from it but are people really expecting a radical different interior to the regular car or at least to the ST? Maybe things were tight after developing their 4WD system.
Some nice seats, a nice steering wheel and some metal pedals is what you tend to get from most manufacturers over their regular models
Splats said:
scherzkeks said:
Yes, it is like the past two Haldex generations in this regard. They are all preemptive, and not purely reactive, despite the fact that this article would have you think the Focus is revolutionary here.
As a footnote to the above, the next question is why is it better. The mechanicals are slightly different and are an evolution of established ideas; I'm willing to bet the reason it's better and the reason 4WD systems will continue to get better is in the code. Hours and hours and hour of honing, testing and refining code to get the best from the mechanical infrastructure. 
scherzkeks said:
Yes, it is a nice evolution, particularly for the road -- SWAC-like dynamics, with preempitve, variable distribution that dials back when not needed. Will be interesting to see if GKN partners with anyone on the aftermarket to potentially provide additional options for tuning. Given the crowd the car is aimed at, they won't be happy for long, regardless of how good it is.
Would an aftermarket tuner be able to make a business case for that though? GKN seem busy talking to the likes of Ford, BMW, Range Rover and I'm sure many more with a view to supplying systems that will be installed into 10's, possibly 100's of thousands of cars. I can't imagine they would have much time for the aftermarket and if they charged for their time/development, I can't imagine the aftermarket could make it stack up financially.By the sounds of things the aftermarket will have to work around the limitations of the system. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to MP380-400 it without any noticeable impact on 4WD dynamics or reliability. However, I think once you venture into 450+ territory you're going to run into issues in terms of driveability and reliability. To be fair though, is that really anything new? It's kind of always been the penalty you pay for tinkering.
To me this sounds like a great road car and a great platform to own and add a couple of basic mods to make it the exact car you want. I can't quite work out why there are ten pages of negativity.
My dad has one arriving in April (70 years old and bought his first Ford RS.. bless) so I will give it a go and see what I think. Plenty of experience to compare it to.
Cheers
Steven RW
My dad has one arriving in April (70 years old and bought his first Ford RS.. bless) so I will give it a go and see what I think. Plenty of experience to compare it to.
Cheers
Steven RW
Splats said:
Would an aftermarket tuner be able to make a business case for that though? GKN seem busy talking to the likes of Ford, BMW, Range Rover and I'm sure many more with a view to supplying systems that will be installed into 10's, possibly 100's of thousands of cars. I can't imagine they would have much time for the aftermarket and if they charged for their time/development, I can't imagine the aftermarket could make it stack up financially.
By the sounds of things the aftermarket will have to work around the limitations of the system. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to MP380-400 it without any noticeable impact on 4WD dynamics or reliability. However, I think once you venture into 450+ territory you're going to run into issues in terms of driveability and reliability. To be fair though, is that really anything new? It's kind of always been the penalty you pay for tinkering.
Depends on what the existing driveline components can handle. I'm sure there is at least 10-15% worth of headroom, but the electronics and how they interact with safety systems would be a bigger issue I think. Haldex partnered with a few of the bigger tuning houses if I recall, don't see why GKN could not do the same. In a daily-driven vehicle, I wouldn't alter a variable system without some level of manufacturer support.By the sounds of things the aftermarket will have to work around the limitations of the system. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to MP380-400 it without any noticeable impact on 4WD dynamics or reliability. However, I think once you venture into 450+ territory you're going to run into issues in terms of driveability and reliability. To be fair though, is that really anything new? It's kind of always been the penalty you pay for tinkering.
blearyeyedboy said:
Steven_RW said:
My dad has one arriving in April (70 years old and bought his first Ford RS.. bless) so I will give it a go and see what I think. Plenty of experience to compare it to.
Cheers
Steven RW
When I'm 70, I want to be like your dad. Cheers
Steven RW
Not sure if this has been posted, some fairly good footage of drift mode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtuqPAkl-SY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtuqPAkl-SY
scherzkeks said:
Depends on what the existing driveline components can handle. I'm sure there is at least 10-15% worth of headroom, but the electronics and how they interact with safety systems would be a bigger issue I think. Haldex partnered with a few of the bigger tuning houses if I recall, don't see why GKN could not do the same. In a daily-driven vehicle, I wouldn't alter a variable system without some level of manufacturer support.
The focus has a warning light that comes on when the diff oils have been cooked/requires replacing to protect them from excessive damage. Hmm. Not convinced. How much drivetrain losses will there be then?
Drift button eh?
I was able to "drift" my 205GTI [you know the underpowered early, ok brand new, 105ps version] with a slight lift when committed and suspension weighted up. Needed to about 155kph for it to work in the dry though.
In the wet it was a lot easier, used to be rather good fun leaving the german bikers for dead in the twisties when wet, but you needed to be sure you were ready to go, tired drivers need not apply..
which brings us back to this latest 1.6 ton behemoth.
Despite the advantages of AWD and high power will it actually, really, be a DRIVERS car??
Drift button eh?
I was able to "drift" my 205GTI [you know the underpowered early, ok brand new, 105ps version] with a slight lift when committed and suspension weighted up. Needed to about 155kph for it to work in the dry though.
In the wet it was a lot easier, used to be rather good fun leaving the german bikers for dead in the twisties when wet, but you needed to be sure you were ready to go, tired drivers need not apply..
which brings us back to this latest 1.6 ton behemoth.
Despite the advantages of AWD and high power will it actually, really, be a DRIVERS car??
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