RE: Porsche 718 Boxster - full details

[80sMatchbox]

GroundEffect said:

Krobar said:

UK Configurator is up. Looks like the they are now including Sound Pack Plus, Bluetooth and a proper head unit as standard. Still have to pay for DAB though!

£59k for my personal spec:

Boxster S
Grey - (What is up with the colour choises?! I want a deep blue dammit!)
Carrera Sport rims
Black & Beige dual leather interior
Sport Plus seats
Seat Ventilation
Nav
Parking front and rear

It's a lot of money.

I was just having a bit of fun to see what you could get it up to.

[Fish]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Let me requote! On track yes I wring it's neck, on an early morning road drive I get chance to use the full rev range. However if I use it for c ommute to the office I sit in traffic and can't wring it's neck!

You have to consciously work hard to make time to wring it's neck!!

[Dan Trent]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

An important distinction I confess I missed when I first raced through the press release; will update the main story accordingly but thanks for making the point here.

Cheers!

Dan

[macky17]

xRIEx said:

chrispmartha said:

macky17 said:

Is it? I'm just getting started. Porsche may rely on the ignorance of the masses to justify a price INCREASE with a lesser power unit but us PHers are not supposed to be so easily ripped off...

I'd buy an S - in about 5 years when they're £15k or less. That would be about right.

Erm, it's got more power hasn't it?

I can only assume that by 'lesser' he means in some status hierarchy, that H4 turbo is lower down the order than H6 NA.

Oh dear. The fact you both appear to be under the impression that more power = a better engine suggests this is the perfect car for you. Ever heard of throttle response? The concept of revving an engine out to release the power? It's supposed to be a sports car not a modern hot hatch. (I like modern hot hatches but I woudnt pay £50k for one).

[Acquah]

jrodzy said:

According the figures quoted in the article all models have actually increased in weight by 15kg??

Personally the lack of a 6 cylinder engine would put me off. I think they should use a detuned version of the base 991.2 engine for the cayman and boxster S. If BMW can make the numbers work on the M135 then surely Porsche could have done the same with the boxster to offer a 6 cylinder option?No wonder they are the most profitable car company in the world...

As I understand it, 6-cyl with turbos wouldn't fit in the Boxster/Cayman engine bay. So it's either 4-cyl with turbo, or NA 6-cyl. For me personally, NA 6-cyl wins hands down. Even with 100bhp less.

[nickfrog]

Ozzie Osmond said:

je777 said:

Pretty soon, cars are going to be all but ruined - and the genuine enthusiast cars are going to rocket in price.

What are these "genuine enthusiast cars" of which you speak?

Someone who will never buy a new car anyway (let alone a new Porsche) but keeps going on about the "majority of" or the "average" Boxster buyer as if 1 - anyone other than Porsche themselves had the MI and 2 - it was of any relevance to compare yourself to other buyers (says more about their own insecurity).

In reality, some serious enthusiasts will buy a new 718 despite its engine (it probably won't be that bad) because it will be superb to drive with a quick recalibration of the right foot inputs. Might be a minority but they don't give a shyte about the usual internet bores who hate everything and demand perfection and everything to their exact standards yet won't spend more than £20k in a car. If those guys bought new and demanded a NA6 then Porsche might take notice. Porsche AG don't sell second hand cars so stop moaning.

[chrispmartha]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Again the point of the stats on paper is to sell more cars. I would also suggest the shift to turbo engines is also to sell more cars.

I think people forget Porsche is a business, and a very profitable one, the whole industry has gone down this route, they would be mad to not go with what the industry is doing and what consumers are now demanding, if they didntbthey would end up being a niche manufacturer

[macky17]

The point is, Porsche are only introducing these engines because they have to. I doubt you'd find a single Porsche engineer who, behind closed doors, wouldn't admit that this will be a less thrilling car. The price increase is adding insult to injury.

[chrispmartha]

macky17 said:

The point is, Porsche are only introducing these engines because they have to. I doubt you'd find a single Porsche engineer who, behind closed doors, wouldn't admit that this will be a less thrilling car. The price increase is adding insult to injury.

Whilst i kind of agree your presuming the average buyer seed this as a downgrade, if you look at the specs on paper its a big upgrade, they arent going to make them cheaper, they are a business.

[DonkeyApple]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Personally, I don't see any reason why this model won't outsell the last. I suspect it might also give something for modern tuners to play with?

I wonder if yours and my general views are maybe not more of a generational thing than anything? This is a car for the Millennials and maybe, growing up with congested roads, the environmental concerns, living in a world of gadgets and with an expectation that everything should be done for them by technology means that they willingly sacrifice the 'tactile' nature of cars and driving in order to benefit from other requirements which they find naturally more important?

I'm inclined to believe that I am not the norm in wanting my driving experience to be much more mechanical, almost as a relaxing escape from the real world. I like technology but I'm not someone who rushes to embrace all technology. I am a very selective consumer of technology. If I look about me then I think it is fair to say that my car is pretty much the only mechanical possession I have and I gain great pleasure from something that is almost anachronistic in modern urban life. But clearly for most people they have no desire or need to experience this.

[havoc]

chrispmartha said:

if you look at the specs on paper its a big upgrade

...and this is half of the problem.

Almost EVERYONE in the auto industry looks at quantitative data - power, 0-60, top-speed, grip levels, lap times, mpg, perceived noise in cabin, etc. etc. etc.


...unfortunately, for a significant portion of enthusiast drivers, quantitative just doesn't cut it...the subjective is far more important. It's like judging a new job offer just on the pay rise you're getting!


...and unfortunately for us, the "new car buying public", even for sports cars, either don't share that view in the main, or aren't being given the option because of legislation, specifically this silly little thing called emissions*.




* I actually think the climate-change science is probably right...but private-car emissions in the West are actually now a VERY smalll % of overall emissions - freight, rail, air, sea, industry, home etc. all contribute a LOT MORE. And private-car emissions appear to be the main tax/legislation target...

[DavidJG]

DonkeyApple said:

This is a car for the Millennials and maybe, growing up with congested roads, the environmental concerns, living in a world of gadgets and with an expectation that everything should be done for them by technology means that they willingly sacrifice the 'tactile' nature of cars and driving in order to benefit from other requirements which they find naturally more important?

You're assuming that some of them have even experienced 'tactile' cars before. When my wife first drove my 987 she thought there was something wrong with it - the steering wheel has feedback, and a lot of the defects in the road surface were causing vibrations through the car (M030). Her nice insulated, numb, boring car doesn't do any of these things - she genuinely thought there were problems with the car. To someone like this, the new 718 will be just fine.

[DonkeyApple]

DavidJG said:

DonkeyApple said:

This is a car for the Millennials and maybe, growing up with congested roads, the environmental concerns, living in a world of gadgets and with an expectation that everything should be done for them by technology means that they willingly sacrifice the 'tactile' nature of cars and driving in order to benefit from other requirements which they find naturally more important?

You're assuming that some of them have even experienced 'tactile' cars before. When my wife first drove my 987 she thought there was something wrong with it - the steering wheel has feedback, and a lot of the defects in the road surface were causing vibrations through the car (M030). Her nice insulated, numb, boring car doesn't do any of these things - she genuinely thought there were problems with the car. To someone like this, the new 718 will be just fine.

I suspect you are right but I also suspect that even do it is an experience very low on the agenda. I think there is a big cultural divide between those who instantly recognise the ping of a typewriter or remember one telephone for four people and it was bolted to a wall and those who don't. The generation that grew up with the first home computers are the link between the old mechanical world and the new digital one and those born solely in the digital era and the latter has grown up with a wholly different set of experiences, expectations and desires. The reality is that modern sports cars aren't actually used to do anything remotely sporty for the most part. They are used to potter along in a queue from one place of spending money to another.

Whether this is good or bad doesn't really matter, I just get the feeling that there is a big cultural divide between Millenials and everyone else purely because they are the first group of humans to grow up with digital technology being the absolute norm. Whereas to us there is more of a chance for new technology to be deemed invasive or detrimental. And maybe this is what we are seeing with cars like this?

[rick88]

mixed feelings. As a long term porsche lover I love the styling and the figures. In reality, I wouldn't touch one for the same reason that I wouldn't touch a 4c, a boosted 4pot just doesn't do it for me, for reasons that the fact that the very fact that the artificial engine sound ridiculousness exists will attest to (as far as I'm concerned, artificially trying to add part of the magic that these modern engines have lost by means of synthesis makes it all the bit worse)

I'm sure they'll sell, people like to have a badge etc, but I'd sooner spend more on an older model than be stuck with a boosted characterless 4 pot.

[Avalyn]

I usually just read PH, but actually for once am compelled to join in the fun. I do feel qualified to comment with experiences of both 6 cylinder NA flat engines, and a number of 4 pot turbo's (Scoobies, Audi's, VW's).

I have a 987.2 Boxster S (PDK, would have preferred manual, but I do a lot of town driving so made a compromise) and have had the GT Carnewal exhaust fitted. I've owned the car for about 6 months. It's my 2nd Boxster (I previously owner an RS60 Spyder).

My previous car was a 2104 S3 Sportback (DSG), so 300 BHP, flat torque curve, and by all accounts one of the better new 4 pot turbo engines. On paper the car was spot on, quick, efficient, very well put together, beautiful inside and had all the toys. It lasted about 3 months before I thought about changing it. So why did I, one word - dull.

Was it quicker than the car I changed it to, straight line definitely, almost instant go in all gears at any revs. That didn't make it fun to drive though, the throttle response did my nut in, and apart from the S-tronic burp there wasn't much joy in revving it out.

The flat 6 in the Boxster is a joy, sharp, lovely to rev out with a nice soulful howl, I have more fun in it pottering around than I did at max attack in the S3.

It has taken me a number of years to realize that more speed doesn't always equal more fun.

I have no doubt the new Boxster will sell well. It has the right specs on paper, and the majority of people won't care it doesn't sound as good or have the throttle response of a good NA engine. 350 BHP innit, bound to be better and quicker. I can have you in a straight line, errrm OK then.

I'll reserve judgment until I've driven one, Porsche quite often pull something out of the bag when you don't expect it, and the 4 pot might sound a bit Scooby like (that's good to me) and rev out well. I do think something will be lost though for the enthusiast who likes an engine to have a character, and enjoy the flat 6 wail as it works it's way through the rev range, comes on cam and howls into the limiter.

[chrispmartha]

rick88 said:

for reasons that the fact that the very fact that the artificial engine sound ridiculousness exists will attest to (as far as I'm concerned, artificially trying to add part of the magic that these modern engines have lost by means of synthesis makes it all the bit worse)

I didn't quite understand that but, I don't think the Boxster has a synthesised sound like BMW's etc.

I could be wrong

[Alex]

Avalyn said:

It has taken me a number of years to realize that more speed doesn't always equal more fun.

Spot on.

[rick88]

chrispmartha said:

I didn't quite understand that but, I don't think the Boxster has a synthesised sound like BMW's etc.

I could be wrong

lol I'm half asleep so it probably didn't make sense, But I was just getting at the fact that the engineers (not saying just Porsche, but the wider market too) obviously know that the fuel efficient turbo engines are lacking the emotion that fox killers of the past had, but I feel like there's no meaningful recompense for it.. Just chasing bigger figures which like a couple of posts back doesn't quite make up for it. Not saying 'shame on them for trying' or 'why are they doing this', I just find it.. kind of sad I suppose!

Edited by rick88 on Thursday 28th January 10:12

[Rawwr]

havoc said:

Almost EVERYONE in the auto industry looks at quantitative data - power, 0-60, top-speed, grip levels, lap times, mpg, perceived noise in cabin, etc. etc. etc.

...unfortunately, for a significant portion of enthusiast drivers, quantitative just doesn't cut it...the subjective is far more important. It's like judging a new job offer just on the pay rise you're getting!

I agree entirely but we're both wrong.

Everyone says they want subjective, feel good motoring in a package which handles well and offers a reasonable level of day-to-day comfort and reliability.

Then you read a thread about the GT86 and discover the reality is that the vast and overwhelming majority of enthusiasts (and I use that term quite wrongly) are more concerned about being out-dragged by a 320d.

People have in their minds a romantic ideal of a sports car, sunny Sunday afternoons and village pubs and then they buy a Golf R.

[chrispmartha]

Rawwr said:

I agree entirely but we're both wrong.

Everyone says they want subjective, feel good motoring in a package which handles well and offers a reasonable level of day-to-day comfort and reliability.

Then you read a thread about the GT86 and discover the reality is that the vast and overwhelming majority of enthusiasts (and I use that term quite wrongly) are more concerned about being out-dragged by a 320d.

People have in their minds a romantic ideal of a sports car, sunny Sunday afternoons and village pubs and then they buy a Golf R.

Quite, Ive also seen it said on here quite a few times that the base Boxster is 'slow'. Well it isn't now. (not that it ever was)