Ford Or Vauxhall? Which Is Worse

[TheAngryDog]

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I still remember how good the Vauxhall red top engine was, and how schitt the Ford CVH was, so I'll pick Ford as being the worst....

Isn't that like comparing the Ford YB engine to the Vauxhall Family II SOHC engine?

Not really. The Vauxhall SOHCs were pretty decent, especially in Cavalier SRI 130 flavor. The YB was a piece of crap until Cosworth intervened.

When Cosworth intervened? At which point in the engine's history was Cosworth not involved?

The YB was based on the Ford Pinto though.

[TheAngryDog]

I've owned both.

Mk3 Astra 1.7D, mk5a Escort 1.8D, mk1 Mondeo 1.8TD, Sierra XR4x4, Sierra Sapphire 2.0 twin Cam, 2 Sapphire Cosworths, Granada 24v, Omega 3.0, used my dads Omega 2.5TD for a while, Vectra 3.2, Fiesta 1.8D.

I loved my Sierra twin Cam (first car), my xr4x4 (second car) and my first cosworth (third car)

Never loved any of the other fords or any of my Vauxhalls. Preferred my old rover 820 vitesse sport turbo. But they were all perfectly fine at what they did. I have no feelings either way to either marque, except id love another cosworth and I'd love a Lotus Carlton. Otherwise I could take it leave them.

[anonymous-user]

In the 1980s Ford and Vauxhall were comparable in terms of quality. Both were made from baked bean tins, rusted and SRi aside, had wheezy, ancient engines. German cars were better built and lasted longer.

Now, I'd say Ford and Vauxhall build perfectly good cars and I cannot critisize either. I think the Insignia VXR is quite a handsome thing and we currently own a newish Focus that hasn't put a foot wrong in almost 80k miles, requiring nothing but consumables and servicing.

German cars on the other hand are now built by accountants and the superior engineering there once was evaporated about 20 years ago. In the 90s, Mercedes made some horribly shoddy cars. I find it laughable how somebody who drives a leased Audi, BMW or Mercedes in washing machine white thinks they are doing better than someone with an equivalent Vauxhall or Ford.

[gazza285]

TheAngryDog said:

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I still remember how good the Vauxhall red top engine was, and how schitt the Ford CVH was, so I'll pick Ford as being the worst....

Isn't that like comparing the Ford YB engine to the Vauxhall Family II SOHC engine?

Not really. The Vauxhall SOHCs were pretty decent, especially in Cavalier SRI 130 flavor. The YB was a piece of crap until Cosworth intervened.

When Cosworth intervened? At which point in the engine's history was Cosworth not involved?

The YB was based on the Ford Pinto though.

Yes, I know. Cosworth have a long history of basing their engines around Ford blocks, there's a direct line of development from the Ford Crossflow to the most successful F1 engine of all time, didn't make my 1100L Escort any quicker. However, I digress. The question I asked was at what point was the YB crap until Cosworth became involved?

[Screechmr2]

the thing i always find annoying about vauxhall is they put keep fitting weak gearboxes in their cars, they are designed to barely cope with the power of the car. i looked at getting an astra vxr or insignia vxr but the gearbox replacements put me off. i'm not sure if there are any other manufacturers out their that have so many gearbox failures.

[TheAngryDog]

gazza285 said:

TheAngryDog said:

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

gazza285 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I still remember how good the Vauxhall red top engine was, and how schitt the Ford CVH was, so I'll pick Ford as being the worst....

Isn't that like comparing the Ford YB engine to the Vauxhall Family II SOHC engine?

Not really. The Vauxhall SOHCs were pretty decent, especially in Cavalier SRI 130 flavor. The YB was a piece of crap until Cosworth intervened.

When Cosworth intervened? At which point in the engine's history was Cosworth not involved?

The YB was based on the Ford Pinto though.

Yes, I know. Cosworth have a long history of basing their engines around Ford blocks, there's a direct line of development from the Ford Crossflow to the most successful F1 engine of all time, didn't make my 1100L Escort any quicker. However, I digress. The question I asked was at what point was the YB crap until Cosworth became involved?

I was responding to the other guy. I love the YB, for what it is and what it is capable of.

[BricktopST205]

Vauxhall are generally more powerful and Ford's generally handle better. That's the crux of it for me over the past decade.

At least vauxhall give things like the Insignia VXR for normal people and more powerful diesel engines. A lot of Ford's engines are really weak and they rarely have a range topper on there white goods cars whereas vauxhall generally do (zafira vxr, Adam grand slam etc).

[ZX10R NIN]

The answer is neither it's all subjective & also weather you're a badge snob etc, the differences between most cars in the same segment is small so it normally comes down to features price power etc compared to the competition.

For example if you want to buy a new/pre reg Mondeo sized car with no more than 100 miles on the clock with 20k max your mass produced options are:

Octavia 1.4 SE-L 150bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Insignia 1.4 Design Sport 140bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/vauxhall/insignia/esta...

Mondeo 1.5 Titanium 160bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Mazda 6 2.0 Sport 165bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

1.5 3 Series Sport 140bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I class BMW's as mass produced just by the numbers made (which is more than Mondeo's) which in turn means they are now giving huge discounts to keep up with production.

Everyone of the above are decent there really isn't a wrong choice it just depends on what you want from your car.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 6th November 15:09

[gazza285]

BricktopST205 said:

A lot of Ford's engines are really weak and they rarely have a range topper on there white goods cars whereas vauxhall generally do (zafira vxr, Adam grand slam etc).

Apart from the Ford Vignale and the RS/ST models that is.

[MJ85]

ZX10R NIN said:

The answer is neither it's all subjective & also weather you're a badge snob etc, the differences between most cars in the same segment is small so it normally comes down to features price power etc compared to the competition.

For example if you want to buy a new/pre reg Mondeo sized car with no more than 500 miles on the clock with 20k max your mass produced options are:

Octavia 1.4 SE-L 150bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Insignia 1.4 Design Sport 140bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/vauxhall/insignia/esta...

Mondeo 1.5 Titanium 160bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Mazda 6 2.0 Sport 165bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

1.5 3 Series Sport 140bhp

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I class BMW's as mass produced just by the numbers made (which is more than Mondeo's) which in turn means they are now giving huge discounts to keep up with production.

Everyone of the above are decent there really isn't a wrong choice it just depends on what you want from your car.

Small world. I know the guy that sits at the desk next to that Mazda 6 (Romford site).

[greenarrow]

Threads like this are fascinating as they only highlight how badge snobby the British are....The other day I had a ride in my neighbours 2011 Passat TDI SE. I then sat in my other neighbour's Insignia CDTI SRI, also a 2011 car, as I am thinking of doing a deal with her when she sells it. Frankly, I couldn't tell much difference in terms of build quality, interior ambience etc and both at the end of the day are FWD, understeery, diesel powered four pot rep mobiles. So, seeing as I could put the Insignia on my drive for about £3K less than the Passat, that's probably what I would go for.

On the other hand, I owned a B5.5 Passat and IMO that wasn't definitely a step up on the Vauxhall Vectra of the time in terms of build quality. Best built car I've ever owned actually.

Modern Fords and Vauxhalls are absolutely fine. Reliability surveys put them on a par with or above Volkswagens, Audis and BMWs.

You cant say one is better than the other, as it comes down to personal preference. IMO, Ford has usually been more a drivers car than Vauxhall, at least since the Focus Mk1, but I understand Vauxhall has spent more time tuning its cars on UK roads in recent years, so the gap now is probably negligible....

[KevinCamaroSS]

Since I don't own either I thought I'd get factual on this one. JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study for 2015 puts Vauxhall in 9th place, with Ford 14th. Same study for 2016 puts Vauxhall 4th and Ford 7th.

Based on this I would have to say Ford is worse.

Winner both years was Skoda. 2nd and 3rd in 2015 were Kia and Suzuki, swapped in 2016 to be Suzuki and Kia.

[WJNB]

Excellent subject & one very familiar to those of us who were employed in some form of sales role as I was from the 1970's on.
First job & first car was a Ford Mk 2 Cortina 1300 L in plain grey, how lucky was as 'cos the chap who joined the company the same day as me got an Austin A40. Dad had a Classic at the time & was jealous of son with newer car but although Cortina was gutless it was comfortable & spacious.
Years later chose a Sierra estate this time had auto box & air conditioning & it was the most comfortable car ever, everything seemed to come so easily to hand, like putting on an old slipper.
Other makes came along then when I had a choice based on a budget I chose a Vauxhall Vectra diesel auto. with an enhanced spec. of cruise control/sunroof/spotlights/fancy alloys. Blow having a boogo basic premium brand like some of my snobby colleagues who then complained of no a/c/ manual box etc etc.
I had the last laugh on the road & at the bank because that Vectra went like the clappers, given that I had back problems the endlessly adjustable drivers seat was a joy & being a convertible lover (I had a Honda S2000 & MX-5 of my own) the sunroof was nice. Cheap cost price & modest emissions meant that the tax man didn't rob me as he did my colleagues.
All this proves that being a badge snob is fine if you are daft enough to pay the price AND tolerate others sniggering at your shallowness & insecurities.
I enjoyed one supreme sense of one-upmanship though & that was when employed in London by the worlds most famous champagne distributor & I had access to the company chauffer to take me to visit customers or have them come to the company showroom. Beat that BMW boy!

[generationx]

gazza285 said:

Yes, I know. Cosworth have a long history of basing their engines around Ford blocks, there's a direct line of development from the Ford Crossflow to the most successful F1 engine of all time, didn't make my 1100L Escort any quicker. However, I digress. The question I asked was at what point was the YB crap until Cosworth became involved?

The YB started out in Cosworth as a proposal for a twin-cam conversion for the aging Pinto 2-litre. During a visit to Northampton Stuart Turner saw it and liked it...

Read "Cosworth - The Search For Power" for the full story.

And Ford over Vauxhall any day. I've had several Vauxhall hire cars in the last couple of years and they have all delivered A
a very decoupled driving experience.

[Oilchange]

Maybe the thread title should be
Which is worse Ford/Vauxhall or VAG/BMW ?

I do get the badge snobbery, it seems to be de riguer to buy German but really, they are no better, in fact JD Power prove otherwise. Chap at work had the engine blow recently(failed cam chain at speed I think) on his BMW, he said he was sucked in all his driving life with them. Lost a lot of money on it, 'will never buy BMW again!'.

[s m]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Since I don't own either I thought I'd get factual on this one. JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study for 2015 puts Vauxhall in 9th place, with Ford 14th. Same study for 2016 puts Vauxhall 4th and Ford 7th.

Based on this I would have to say Ford is worse.

Winner both years was Skoda. 2nd and 3rd in 2015 were Kia and Suzuki, swapped in 2016 to be Suzuki and Kia.

Surprising that Honda, BMW, Audi, Jaguar were all below Ford/Vauxhall as well.

I wonder if they have to build 'expectation' into the survey.

I expect someone will be able to explain the placings

[Rickyy]

Ford for me. Equivalent Vauxhalls always seem to have more power, but the engines always felt flat. The Zetec engines from Ford always felt a bit more 'raw' compared to the Ecotecs of the same generation. Not to mention pretty much every Ford seems to handle better than the equivalent Vauxhall offering.

Interior wise, Vauxhalls are quite dull, but they feel better quality and more solid. I also think some models look better than Fords, Corsa C vs Mk5/6 Fiesta, current Astra vs Focus.

I love old Vauxhalls, Carltons, Senators, Cavaliers, Mantas, Mk1 and 2 Astras. But I love Fords of all ages.

[gazza285]

generationx said:

gazza285 said:

Yes, I know. Cosworth have a long history of basing their engines around Ford blocks, there's a direct line of development from the Ford Crossflow to the most successful F1 engine of all time, didn't make my 1100L Escort any quicker. However, I digress. The question I asked was at what point was the YB crap until Cosworth became involved?

The YB started out in Cosworth as a proposal for a twin-cam conversion for the aging Pinto 2-litre. During a visit to Northampton Stuart Turner saw it and liked it...

Read "Cosworth - The Search For Power" for the full story.

I know that, it was SuperchargedVR6 who said it was crap until Cosworth became involved. Not a bad engine, never as good as the BD engines though.

[Funkycoldribena]

Vauxhall for motorway, Ford for b roads.
That's about it really,always found Vauxhall more refined at high speed but Fords way better for handling.

[KingNothing]

Learned to drive in Vauxhalls, have only bought Ford's since then. Currently driving a Mk.2 Focus RS, although I did have fun driving the Corsa VXR on a VXR event at Croft. If I were to buy a normal runaround car it would be a Fiesta or a Focus over a Corsa or Astra though.