Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.
Discussion
People moaning about it being unfair ?
Dont get it, are they excluded from the purchase of an EV ?
Or is it like the moans about cyclists and Road Tax, again as if they are excluded from riding a bike, they arent, they just dont want to by and large.
You make your decision, nobody else and whether you confer that benefit is down to that choice and that choice only.
Dont get it, are they excluded from the purchase of an EV ?
Or is it like the moans about cyclists and Road Tax, again as if they are excluded from riding a bike, they arent, they just dont want to by and large.
You make your decision, nobody else and whether you confer that benefit is down to that choice and that choice only.
e21Mark said:
I hope lots of people go electric and that super unleaded supplies longer as a result. If they can develop an EC that drives with the character and sound of an internal combustion engine though, I'm happy to give it a go.
Can't they just borrow the fake engine sound systems used by many ICE cars already? 
Here's a question, how are EV's as tow-cars?
I was trundling behind a load of caravans on the A1 today, loads going North and South on holiday, cars towing trailers and boats etc as normal. Are EV's better as tow cars due to their torque and weight, or rubbish due to extra load killing off any practical range?
Could you holiday with a Tesla and Caravan, like you can with ICE cars?
I was trundling behind a load of caravans on the A1 today, loads going North and South on holiday, cars towing trailers and boats etc as normal. Are EV's better as tow cars due to their torque and weight, or rubbish due to extra load killing off any practical range?
Could you holiday with a Tesla and Caravan, like you can with ICE cars?
berlintaxi said:
Piece on the breakfast news over the weekend about them trialling solar panel recharging units embedded in the road surface, basically charging the car as it drives along, they already have one you just need to park over to charge, sounds great if they can make it work.
The last thing we need is to further increase power consumption by pissing it away on inefficient inductive charging systems.The Surveyor said:
Here's a question, how are EV's as tow-cars?
I was trundling behind a load of caravans on the A1 today, loads going North and South on holiday, cars towing trailers and boats etc as normal. Are EV's better as tow cars due to their torque and weight, or rubbish due to extra load killing off any practical range?
Could you holiday with a Tesla and Caravan, like you can with ICE cars?
Pretty hopeless.I was trundling behind a load of caravans on the A1 today, loads going North and South on holiday, cars towing trailers and boats etc as normal. Are EV's better as tow cars due to their torque and weight, or rubbish due to extra load killing off any practical range?
Could you holiday with a Tesla and Caravan, like you can with ICE cars?
They (generally) haven't got gears, so can't make massive peak wheel torques, and extra drag is bad when your on-board energy store is so small, On the flip side, their bi-directional powertrains mean lots of "engine" braking, so nice smooth speed control on the down hills.
BenjiS said:
James_B said:
There's a new Tesla shop next to my flat, and I wandered in, had a look, and specked up a car recently.
Unfortunately, picking the options I wanted, it came to £165,000. I also was refused permission to fit a charger in the block's communal garage, so that brought up two reasons not to have one yet.
The fact that I can't yet do the 300 mile trip home in a single hit was the final reason. Nearly, on the last one, but not quite yet.
I've just gone on Tesla's website, and configured both a model S and an X, with every single option they do, and I can't get one over £155k.Unfortunately, picking the options I wanted, it came to £165,000. I also was refused permission to fit a charger in the block's communal garage, so that brought up two reasons not to have one yet.
The fact that I can't yet do the 300 mile trip home in a single hit was the final reason. Nearly, on the last one, but not quite yet.
I suspect the novelty of the P100D's acceleration never gets old. An expensive party trick though!
njd27 said:
LuS1fer said:
Friend has a Leaf. Can barely hear it outside but it's still audible inside re tyres etc. He spends much time driving carefully but never seems to have any fun in it.
Objectively, I think it's ugly and not particularly comfortable in the back.
What people tend to ignore, while banging on about running costs, is the high depreciation and who is going to buy a used EV appliance.
Teslas may be good but they are way beyond most people.
I have no issues with EVs but not until the market accepts them used.
In the US, used EVs cost peanuts.
I have a lot of fun in my Leaf. The thing is, if your range is well inside the distance you're commuting, you can drive it everywhere as fast as you like, without worrying about mpg, because it's only pennies per mile. It's a bit of a revelation actually.Objectively, I think it's ugly and not particularly comfortable in the back.
What people tend to ignore, while banging on about running costs, is the high depreciation and who is going to buy a used EV appliance.
Teslas may be good but they are way beyond most people.
I have no issues with EVs but not until the market accepts them used.
In the US, used EVs cost peanuts.
If I had kept my Leaf I'd have probably swapped out the suspension and wheels to get a better road feel, it's pretty quick at town speeds but isn't very engaging. I haven't driven a Note but I imagine it's engineered to drive much the same.
Edited by Gareth79 on Tuesday 8th August 17:19
I’m finding our Leaf a hoot to drive. It isn’t fast, but 0-30 is a pretty fun. Handling isn’t amazing, but isn’t bad considering and a lot more engaging than many soulless euroboxes I’ve tried. Practicality is great. The sound it makes is brilliant- it’s like having a little spaceship. It might not sound like an ICE but is addictive in its own way. Ownership experience is very positive so far - a welcoming community.
Discounts were mad - government subsidy (4.5k), Nissan discount (5k), Nissan “friends and family” discount (I’m neither) 1.5k, another 1k because I asked. Free home charger (paid for partly by subsidy partly by Nissan).
Never really worry about the battery stats - just drive it like any car. Never ever used eco mode. Gives 100 plus miles easy.
I think a lot of people would have a different opinion of EV’s were they to actually drive one.
Discounts were mad - government subsidy (4.5k), Nissan discount (5k), Nissan “friends and family” discount (I’m neither) 1.5k, another 1k because I asked. Free home charger (paid for partly by subsidy partly by Nissan).
Never really worry about the battery stats - just drive it like any car. Never ever used eco mode. Gives 100 plus miles easy.
I think a lot of people would have a different opinion of EV’s were they to actually drive one.
DoubleD said:
I wont be buying one, with looks that only a mother could love and reviews like the below....
"However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
We need an electric Elise with that £4500 discount..."However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
LuS1fer said:
DoubleD said:
I wont be buying one, with looks that only a mother could love and reviews like the below....
"However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
We need an electric Elise with that £4500 discount..."However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
DoubleD said:
Why cant they produce something exciting and good looking.
I assume because they have to be high to accommodate the batteries.Jalopnik showed some anticipated Nissan Leaf with an aggressive Seat-ish nose but, sadly, the reality looks to be this ugly pumpkin
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2018-n...
That said, Nissan have hardly been outstanding exponents of exciting cars since they dropped the 240Z and 300 ZX turbo and 200SX.
They have dropped more balls than the worst juggler in the world.
If I was to buy an EV, i would want it to be something I sneaked a look back at, as I walked away. Still waiting for that one.
Max_Torque said:
Pretty hopeless.
They (generally) haven't got gears, so can't make massive peak wheel torques, and extra drag is bad when your on-board energy store is so small, On the flip side, their bi-directional powertrains mean lots of "engine" braking, so nice smooth speed control on the down hills.
Kind of confused about this, they have outrageous levels of torque so why would they not be able to tow? Plenty of videos of the Tesla model X towing huge trailers with ease. They (generally) haven't got gears, so can't make massive peak wheel torques, and extra drag is bad when your on-board energy store is so small, On the flip side, their bi-directional powertrains mean lots of "engine" braking, so nice smooth speed control on the down hills.
jjwilde said:
they have outrageous levels of torque.
only if you believe everything you read on the internet.....Take a typical 2.0 turbo diesel, making 400Nm at the engine flywheel. In 1st gear (around 3:1 reduction) and then through the final drive ratio (again, around 3:1) that means it can put out 3600Nm at the driving wheels. On a typical modern tyre (diameter of around 650mm) that results in a tractive effort of 11kN.
Now an EV has a final drive ratio between it's motor and the road wheel, but it's usually a single fixed gear ratio, and as the vehicle has to have a reasonable top speed, that ratio is a compromise between high tractive efforts at low speeds, and being able to still turn fast enough to get a decent top end. Most EV's are limited to a little bit under 100mph in order to allow a lower gear to be used to maximise the vehicles peak tractive effort at low speed (which is critical for say getting up and over a kerb, or moving a fully loaded car up a steep driveway etc) Most of the major transmission manufacturers are currently working on low cost seamless shifting multispeed (2 or 3 speed) transmissions for EVs. Today, they cost too much, but as EV volumes increase, the costs will fall and they will become viable, and that will bring a massive performance improvement to a typical EV!
Max_Torque said:
only if you believe everything you read on the internet.....
Take a typical 2.0 turbo diesel, making 400Nm at the engine flywheel. In 1st gear (around 3:1 reduction) and then through the final drive ratio (again, around 3:1) that means it can put out 3600Nm at the driving wheels. On a typical modern tyre (diameter of around 650mm) that results in a tractive effort of 11kN.
Now an EV has a final drive ratio between it's motor and the road wheel, but it's usually a single fixed gear ratio, and as the vehicle has to have a reasonable top speed, that ratio is a compromise between high tractive efforts at low speeds, and being able to still turn fast enough to get a decent top end. Most EV's are limited to a little bit under 100mph in order to allow a lower gear to be used to maximise the vehicles peak tractive effort at low speed (which is critical for say getting up and over a kerb, or moving a fully loaded car up a steep driveway etc) Most of the major transmission manufacturers are currently working on low cost seamless shifting multispeed (2 or 3 speed) transmissions for EVs. Today, they cost too much, but as EV volumes increase, the costs will fall and they will become viable, and that will bring a massive performance improvement to a typical EV!
So the Tesla model X isn't good at towing? How do you think it would poorly perform? Videos I've seen show it towing at 80mph with ease. I know it effects the range but presumably towing effects the MPG of any vehicle.Take a typical 2.0 turbo diesel, making 400Nm at the engine flywheel. In 1st gear (around 3:1 reduction) and then through the final drive ratio (again, around 3:1) that means it can put out 3600Nm at the driving wheels. On a typical modern tyre (diameter of around 650mm) that results in a tractive effort of 11kN.
Now an EV has a final drive ratio between it's motor and the road wheel, but it's usually a single fixed gear ratio, and as the vehicle has to have a reasonable top speed, that ratio is a compromise between high tractive efforts at low speeds, and being able to still turn fast enough to get a decent top end. Most EV's are limited to a little bit under 100mph in order to allow a lower gear to be used to maximise the vehicles peak tractive effort at low speed (which is critical for say getting up and over a kerb, or moving a fully loaded car up a steep driveway etc) Most of the major transmission manufacturers are currently working on low cost seamless shifting multispeed (2 or 3 speed) transmissions for EVs. Today, they cost too much, but as EV volumes increase, the costs will fall and they will become viable, and that will bring a massive performance improvement to a typical EV!
Also in regards to a gearbox improving EV performance, how would it improve? The Tesla ModelS is the quickest car in the world with 1 gear, doing 0-60 in 2.3seconds. Why would a gearbox ever be needed if a single gear can do this?
I keep reading that a gearbox would not improve an EV in any significant way to make it worth having the gearbox (and all the issues that might bring). Unless maybe you want a top speed of 200+ mph?
DoubleD said:
LuS1fer said:
DoubleD said:
I wont be buying one, with looks that only a mother could love and reviews like the below....
"However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
We need an electric Elise with that £4500 discount..."However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
rscott said:
DoubleD said:
LuS1fer said:
DoubleD said:
I wont be buying one, with looks that only a mother could love and reviews like the below....
"However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
We need an electric Elise with that £4500 discount..."However, it won't come as a surprise to discover that the Nissan Leaf isn't a car for enthusiastic drivers, and the handling is pretty inert"
I got my first EV (a Zoe) when they were doing really cheap PCP deals a few years ago. It was cheap enough that if I hated it I would have at least experimented with an EV and not drive it very much. My main car at the time was an SL 55 AMG so hopefully that shows I was never an eco warrior.
What in fact happened was I found myself taking the EV the vast majority of the time as it was simply more convenient and for my straight road commute made no difference in drive time. In fact I ended up using the SL so little that often when I tried to it was hampered by a flat battery!
Subsequently I got a Nissan Leaf which is a bit more of a grown up car than the Zoe but perhaps a bit less fun but I still drive it much more often than its garage mate, which is now an S600 TT.
More interestingly in the time since I got the first Zoe 8 colleagues have asked about my EV experiences and taken the plunge themselves, they are all delighted with them. I should also point out they all have access to other ICE vehicles for longer trips or use the EV as a second car (for which they are ideal)
I can't imaging not having an EV in any future fleet for commuting purposes at least.
What in fact happened was I found myself taking the EV the vast majority of the time as it was simply more convenient and for my straight road commute made no difference in drive time. In fact I ended up using the SL so little that often when I tried to it was hampered by a flat battery!
Subsequently I got a Nissan Leaf which is a bit more of a grown up car than the Zoe but perhaps a bit less fun but I still drive it much more often than its garage mate, which is now an S600 TT.
More interestingly in the time since I got the first Zoe 8 colleagues have asked about my EV experiences and taken the plunge themselves, they are all delighted with them. I should also point out they all have access to other ICE vehicles for longer trips or use the EV as a second car (for which they are ideal)
I can't imaging not having an EV in any future fleet for commuting purposes at least.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff