RE: Bloodhound SSC project enters administration

[Mave]

Equus said:

As I've said before, the whole 'boldy stepping into the unknown' bks is just blarney for the media. Look at the shape of Bloodhound, or any other car properly designed to go supersonic and you'll see that its actually very simple and straightforward. Compared to the aerodynamic complexity of, say, a current F1 car, it's not even in the same league.

How much money, how many design iterations, how much evolution and how many hours of representative wind tunnel time do you think goes into those F1cars?

[Mave]

Equus said:

We've known for ages that the answer to managing the reflected shockwaves is to use a long, slender 'delta' planform. Blue Flame knew it, as did SMI Motivator, Budweiser Rocket, Bluebird CN8, Blue Star, Spirit of America Formula Shell, etc., etc.

And yet everyone of those designs that has got close to the speed of sound has struggled with stability problems. I don't know how you can conclude that a design that hasn't yet been made to work is the correct one, especially when compared to a different design concept that has been made to work.

[Equus]

Mave said:

I don't know how you can conclude that a design that hasn't yet been made to work is the correct one, especially when compared to a different design concept that has been made to work.

Well, maybe you can ask IN51GHT, since his team also reached the same conclusion?

[Equus]

Mave said:

How much money, how many design iterations, how much evolution and how many hours of representative wind tunnel time do you think goes into those F1cars?

You're starting to agree with me on the importance of money, then?

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

I don't know how you can conclude that a design that hasn't yet been made to work is the correct one, especially when compared to a different design concept that has been made to work.

Well, maybe you can ask IN51GHT, since his team also reached the same conclusion?

Well, I'm asking you seeing as it was your conclusion.
If I want IN51GHTs opinion I'll ask him!

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

How much money, how many design iterations, how much evolution and how many hours of representative wind tunnel time do you think goes into those F1cars?

You're starting to agree with me on the importance of money, then?

I never said it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the most important.
So back to the question, how much money, how many design iterations, how much evolution and how many hours of representative wind tunnel time do you think goes into those F1cars? If its all so very predictable, why do they still do so much testing?

Edited by Mave on Friday 19th October 15:58

[Equus]

Mave said:

I never said it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the most important.

So what do you think is most important?

I'm sure that the Bloodhound team will be delighted if you can tell them that the fact they're insolvent doesn't matter as much as XYZ, and that the record is as good as theirs, if only they follow your advice.

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

I never said it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the most important.

So what do you think is most important?

I've already voiced my opinion " It (cost) may be equally important as other things, but if you are trying to break a Land Speed Record, it's also at least equally important to have a car that's faster than the current record holder!"

[Equus]

Mave said:

I've already voiced my opinion " It (cost) may be equally important as other things, but if you are trying to break a Land Speed Record, it's also at least equally important to have a car that's faster than the current record holder!"

Equally important to the Bloodhound Project, would you say?

They were planning on three years of development trials, before they get anywhere close to their top speed, whatever that may be.

Regardless of the car's performance, or otherwise, can you tell us how they're going to undertake those development trials whilst insolvent?

Which do they need first, the money, or the speed?

[mcdjl]

Mave said:

Equus said:

Mave said:

I never said it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the most important.

So what do you think is most important?

I've already voiced my opinion " It (cost) may be equally important as other things, but if you are trying to break a Land Speed Record, it's also at least equally important to have a car that's faster than the current record holder!"

Money lets you build a car and get it somewhere. Having all the money in the world but no car won't get you a speed record. Equally, having a car but no money won't get you a speed record. Even if you have money and a car, it has to be a good and fast car. I somewhat suspect that short of a falconX/SaturnV rocket there isn't anyway my car will get a record.

[Equus]

mcdjl said:

Having all the money in the world but no car won't get you a speed record.

Wanna bet?

Are you seriously suggesting that if your name was Bill Gates, you couldn't pick up the phone to McLaren, or Lockheed Martin, or whoever, and have the record in a couple of year's time, if you really wanted to?

[mcdjl]

Equus said:

mcdjl said:

Having all the money in the world but no car won't get you a speed record.

Wanna bet?

Are you seriously suggesting that if your name was Bill Gates, you couldn't pick up the phone to McLaren, or Lockheed Martin, or whoever, and have the record in a couple of year's time, if you really wanted to?

Ok, maybe i should have said 'doesn't mean you have'. Though i i think that if you went about it the wrong way with all the money in the world you could spend it and not end up with the record. Phoning Lockheed Martin could be a good start down that route.

[Mave]

Equus said:

mcdjl said:

Having all the money in the world but no car won't get you a speed record.

Wanna bet?

Are you seriously suggesting that if your name was Bill Gates, you couldn't pick up the phone to McLaren, or Lockheed Martin, or whoever, and have the record in a couple of year's time, if you really wanted to?

Well then you wouldn't have all the money in the world and no car would you?

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

I've already voiced my opinion " It (cost) may be equally important as other things, but if you are trying to break a Land Speed Record, it's also at least equally important to have a car that's faster than the current record holder!"

Equally important to the Bloodhound Project, would you say?

They were planning on three years of development trials, before they get anywhere close to their top speed, whatever that may be.

Regardless of the car's performance, or otherwise, can you tell us how they're going to undertake those development trials whilst insolvent?

Which do they need first, the money, or the speed?

Where are they going to get the money if they haven't got a credible route to getting the speed?

[Equus]

Mave said:

Where are they going to get the money if they haven't got a credible route to getting the speed?

So let me get this straight: your latest revised position is that it's at least equally important to have a credible route to getting the speed?

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

Where are they going to get the money if they haven't got a credible route to getting the speed?

So let me get this straight: your latest revised position is that it's at least equally important to have a credible route to getting the speed?

No. For the third time my opinion is " It (cost) may be equally important as other things, but if you are trying to break a Land Speed Record, it's also at least equally important to have a car that's faster than the current record holder!" That's not a revised opinion. It's a consistent opinion with what I've stated previously. Whereas you're willing to bet you can get a LSR with money but no car.... How exactly do you get a LSR without a car that's faster than the current LSR?

[tigerkoi]

Without any disrespect to any involved or involved in other endeavours, I sort of struggle when I read, “IN ADMIN! NEED 25 BUCKS FAST!”

As a kid I remember the television images of Thrust SSC scorching across the desert. They were iconic. This low, black, pointed missile running across Black Rock. Fantastic. I think it was the simple black paint against the pale sand. Even stock photos just show how fantastic the thing looked.

Then a few years later I hear about the Bloodhound thing. Hmmm, cringey name, I’d preferred Thrust 3 or something, but of course endeavoured to follow the storyline.

Then I see the pictures of the model. Hmmm...I’ll be honest as I think it looks awful and unlike SSC theres no unity to the form. It looked like an American attempt. And the colours! And also those stickers! It looks something formed by committee. Not the sterling vision of one person.

Then I read all these stories about exactly how many - different - engines it’ll have. And even a story about some young guy who claimed to have a bespoke rocket or something for it. Wow! Is it largesse or really necessary.

And then it’s all the good PR about STEM blah blah blah, touring the circuit (just build the thing already and drive it!), going on and on about how they’ll make the various engines work (needless complexity?) and then the average person likes me just....loses..... interest.

When does something that was in effect a hobby, become a professional merrygoround where people are looking for good salaries for what is in effect....their hobby? Because it’s so tenuous, and tied down to the market to consider whether the “project” is worth it. But people seem to live the circuit as such and you wonder if the old ‘everyone get stuck in on the spanner’s until 3am’ has been replaced by “ill happily come on board for x, and what are my benefits?”

I think a really slick American billionaire could easily pick it up, but not for £25, ship the lot to the US, work Vegas, get a huge betting sponsor who’ll make it the main event, a huge PPV affair like a Mayweather fight, go with Amazon for streaming and promote the hell out of it and just make a simple one-off event that clears it’s costs and more. Make it a razzmatazz not some cardigan event where LSR wannabees all chase the same marketing spend. Look elsewhere! 20k picked up Farnborough? If true didn’t someone want to wind things up then? That’s not great.

Ten years is too long. There was a two or three year window to do something, then interest wanes.

I hope it does the business one day, but....

[Equus]

Mave said:

...you're willing to bet you can get a LSR with money but no car.... How exactly do you get a LSR without a car that's faster than the current LSR?

You pay to have one built. Simples.

The point you're missing is that with sufficient money, designing and building the car isn't the difficult bit.

Historically, getting the right track conditions for the attempt is your next biggest problem.

[Mave]

Equus said:

Mave said:

...you're willing to bet you can get a LSR with money but no car.... How exactly do you get a LSR without a car that's faster than the current LSR?

You pay to have one built. Simples.

The point you're missing is that with sufficient money, designing and building the car isn't the difficult bit.

The point you're missing is that even with sufficient money, designing and building the car is difficult.

[Equus]

Mave said:

The point you're missing is that even with sufficient money, designing and building the car is difficult.

No, it isn't. Really it isn't.

The problems occur only when you haven't got the cash to do it properly. It's actually surprising how many LSR cars have failed to break the record, if they actually get as far as the salt - and then, most often, because they don't get the right conditions to run to their full potential.