RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019

[spreadsheet monkey]

loudlashadjuster said:

Seven models, nine if you include the Jag SUVs, across, and I’m being generous here, three distinct size segments.

Even the Germans are rarely that ‘enthusiastic’ about chasing niches.

They're giving them a pretty good run for their money.

BMW has the X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6 and X7 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X)
Merc has the GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE, GLE coupe, GLS and G-wagen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mercedes-Benz_vehicles)

[NomduJour]

300bhp/ton said:

I think that is deliberately missing the point. The 3 Series WAS the entry level basic BMW. Today it is not and there entire ranges of vehicles below it. Thus the name still exists, but it is placed on a car in an entirely different market segment.

Say wut? The 3 Series is still a smallish saloon car - like everything else, it has got bigger and more expensive, and BMW have started to enter different sectors, but it’s still the same sort of car.

If you want a new small off-road car which is old fashioned and pretty awful, why haven’t you bought a Jimny?

[DonkeyApple]

Andeh1 said:

Brooking10 said:

300bhp/ton said:

As a die-hard Land Rover fan. No, not even remotely.

In fact it probably is the least cool. As it is purely designed and built for posers and pretenders.

Maybe they should have called it the Land Rover Pretender

Here's an idea.

Don't buy one.

Have you ever bought a new LR product ?

No, 300bhp/ton represents the 0.000001% of the UK's population that buy a 10 year old vehicle for peanuts, to modify it up at huge cost in order to take it on pre-prepared trails to get it stuck, to allow himself to get all hot and bothered as he man handle's the winch to unstick himself, before retiring for a bacon sarnie & heated discussion on tyre treads and how JLR is doomed for ignoring their views on future vehicle capability.

300bhp/ton is angry that the above is not the pivotal case study JLR uses to define all vehicle design.

The new Defender, much to 300bhp/ton's annoyance, will be more capable then 99% of the vehicles sold on the market and will probably exceed the original defender off-road capability in standard form in nigh on every way. For example - the new Defender can wade nearly twice times the depth of water then the old one. How about that.

Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 10th September 13:40

But. Farmer.

[300bhp/ton]

NomduJour said:

300bhp/ton said:

However will wait and see.

Are you going to ask for your deposit back?

On the Jimny, no.

[Sporky]

This has been a most entertaining thread. I'm off to play with the configurator - hopefully under lifestyle accessories there'll be a full-size soft-toy sheep I can throw in the back.

[cidered77]

spreadsheet monkey said:

loudlashadjuster said:

Seven models, nine if you include the Jag SUVs, across, and I’m being generous here, three distinct size segments.

Even the Germans are rarely that ‘enthusiastic’ about chasing niches.

They're giving them a pretty good run for their money.

BMW has the X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6 and X7 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X)
Merc has the GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE, GLE coupe, GLS and G-wagen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mercedes-Benz_vehicles)

...and every new niche launched attracts much fury from Pistonheads, and cries of "what is the point", etc.

In the red corner: hundreds maybe thousands of marketing professionals whose reward depends on identifying changing consumer trends and an ever growing need for the middle classes to distinguish themselves with ever more differentiated "personalised" purchases.

in the blue corner: some grumpy men on the internet...

Niches exist because consumers want them.

[NomduJour]

300bhp/ton said:

On the Jimny, no.

So you actually want a novelty leisure car? A Jimny is no use for actual work, and no use for actually travelling in.

[300bhp/ton]

jhonn said:

300bhp/ton said:

... and somewhat capable off road.

However will wait and see.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how it performs off-road, especially in a back-to-back test with a last-gen standard Defender - I suspect that the new one will be much more capable in the majority of real life off-road situations.

The electronic aids should allow the new one to keep all its wheels spinning more often, as well as make slower descents. I suspect it may well lift a wheel far more often however and 'feel' a little less stable.

The biggest differences is the rugged ability of the old one. Square profile, little overhangs and durable bumpers. The new one is plastic fantastic with rounded with corners you can't see. And plastic bumpers with body coloured paint. Ultimately the new one is more likely to take damage off road and damage that will be more noticeable and more expensive/harder to fix.

[DonkeyApple]

NomduJour said:

So you actually want a novelty leisure car? A Jimny is no use for actual work, and no use for actually travelling in.

Can't drive with ones head out the window of the new Defender.

[RacerMike]

300bhp/ton said:

jhonn said:

300bhp/ton said:

... and somewhat capable off road.

However will wait and see.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how it performs off-road, especially in a back-to-back test with a last-gen standard Defender - I suspect that the new one will be much more capable in the majority of real life off-road situations.

The electronic aids should allow the new one to keep all its wheels spinning more often, as well as make slower descents. I suspect it may well lift a wheel far more often however and 'feel' a little less stable.

The biggest differences is the rugged ability of the old one. Square profile, little overhangs and durable bumpers. The new one is plastic fantastic with rounded with corners you can't see. And plastic bumpers with body coloured paint. Ultimately the new one is more likely to take damage off road and damage that will be more noticeable and more expensive/harder to fix.

And how cheap do you believe your Jimny will be to fix? Assuming you are doing hardcore offroading with it.....

[300bhp/ton]

utgjon said:

For the love of god...

IF YOU WANT THE OLD DEFENDER, BUY ONE..

You are missing the point. Many people don't want the old Defender, they want a modernised version of it. Something very different to either the old one or this new Sport variant.

Jeep and Suzuki have both managed this with their respective models. But the Jimny lacks the towing ability and a LWB variant. The the Jeep is aimed at the recreational market, not utility. So lacks some aspects the Defender has traditionally been able to fill, but now does not.

[anonymous-user]

corozin said:

For sixty thousand quid I expect it to grow wings and fly and have a warp drive fitted.

Sixty
Thousand
Pounds.

Just let that sink in. For a Land Rover.

Some news - People have been paying a hundred thousand pounds every day of the week for Land Rovers for quite some while now ...

[The Vambo]

loudlashadjuster said:

I think JLR intend finding out!

Seven models, nine if you include the Jag SUVs, across, and I’m being generous here, three distinct size segments.

Even the Germans are rarely that ‘enthusiastic’ about chasing niches.

Thats becuse the Germans couldn't care less about tradition and the oldfashioned perception of a brand.

Can you Imagine if LR built a sports car, 'cos thats the equivalent of what Porche did, you would be going mental about tradition and ethos and blah blah blah unemployed Brummies.

[The Vambo]

300bhp/ton said:

utgjon said:

For the love of god...

IF YOU WANT THE OLD DEFENDER, BUY ONE..

You are missing the point. Many people don't want the old Defender, they want a modernised version of it. Something very different to either the old one or this new Sport variant.

I think I can see the flaw in your working.

That should say a few people.

[hu8742]

Did I read that correctly? £60k for the 2.4l ... no chance.

[Sporky]

300bhp/ton said:

Many people don't want the old Defender, they want a modernised version of it. Something very different to either the old one or this new Sport variant.

Do they all agree on what it should be?

My guess is a horse with caterpillar tracks.

[300bhp/ton]

aeropilot said:

bakerstreet said:

I don't like that random piece of plastic of body colored plastic on the windows. That really looks quite odd. The all glass rear window looks much better.

Yeah, what the fk is that all about......was that a result of take your child to work day or something?

I suspect it is a slightly botched attempt to make the C pillar visible as per the 110. But it does look rather a mess and nothing really like a 110.

[NomduJour]

300bhp/ton said:

The biggest differences is the rugged ability of the old one. Square profile, little overhangs and durable bumpers. The new one is plastic fantastic with rounded with corners you can't see. And plastic bumpers with body coloured paint. Ultimately the new one is more likely to take damage off road and damage that will be more noticeable and more expensive/harder to fix.

I think the worst damage I’ve inflicted in normal off-road use is the odd scratch from trees and hedges - if my intention was to waste my weekends with One Life high-viz it’s-gripped deliberately trying to get stuck in an old quarry activities, I wouldn’t be looking at a new anything.

[anonymous-user]

Like the proportions and the steel wheels! My main issue would be reliable it is going to be? Certainly a step up from the last efforts and the most interesting design since the 3.

[The Vambo]

Sporky said:

Do they all agree on what it should be?

My guess is a horse with caterpillar tracks.

You can get that?