PH thoughts on this 'Advanced' driver's dashcam vids?
Discussion
martine said:
I didn't comment not because I was 'closing ranks' or anything like - if you knew me, you'd realise that's just not my style - I just thought Dom might like to respond himself as I know he's pretty active on here, ADUK and the IAM forum.
You do seem to have a bit of a chip - what have I done to upset you?
Another example of 'sliminess'...You do seem to have a bit of a chip - what have I done to upset you?
You waded in with this pretty quickly...
martine said:
There's one thing worse than a pompous Advanced Driver...that's a pistonheads user who slags of those that have taken further driver training when often they have no idea what advanced driving is really all about...
...considering you were leaving it for him to sort out himself!When asked for an opinion you declined, hence my interpretation.
Dom came in and tried to act all high and mighty, then bailed and made the videos private, it didn't save him any embarrassment. I downloaded the videos and sent them to Chiswick along with a link to this thread.
You have done nothing to upset me, it's just slime balls in general upset me. Somebody used the term 'utter Gareth' which seemed fitting.
Aaaaaaaaaanyway if you want to keep posting please do, I'll play ball, every new post keeps the thread on page 1 of General gassing so...
dombooth said:
Thank you, it is appreciated to read a message from someone not slinging insults.
Dom
Happy to acknowledge back-pats then dom!Dom
With regards to your question, you bailed out yesterday as soon as you saw that your excuses were getting you nowhere, you remember, pretty much as soon as your 'drop the attitude fella' comment was met with a similar rebuke, pretty much straight after you removed the YT content, although you were showing online at ADUK, that's a bail in my book.
Do you have a copyright issue over a YT partner downloading those vids? Shame you didn't consider those drivers' right to privacy when you published their registration details. Mind you, you didn't mind showing where you lived, was that a little daft too perhaps?
I did stick up for you though, over the 'golf tyre squeak' vid, anyone who owns a Fiat Punto has every right to be jealous of a Golf.
Someone else described you as 'an utter Gareth' and some people didn't know what that meant, an 'utter Gareth' is a PH generic term meaning 'total whatsit'.
I'd climb down from the moral high-ground if it were me, the more the thread is updated the longer it stays on page 1 of General gassing.
I haven't insulted you, no need, the complete embarrassment of those videos is enough for me.
If it makes you feel any better I didn't seek those videos out, I found the Land Rover one when searching on YT for Land Rover videos.
Best of luck dom, you are by no means the only person who brings the IAM name into disrepute online, sorry if this has hurt your pride but sometimes the 'holier than thou' need taking down a peg or two.
martine said:
I find your posts really quite unnecessarily personal and aggressive - do you always post in such a manner or is it just me?
My original post on this thread wasn't actually aimed at you but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to instigate a defence of those that want to disparage advanced driving in general and the IAM specifically. I don't understand why you would do this.
I stand by my original post and it wasn't aimed at one individual (you or otherwise) - I think perhaps you may have misunderstood in which case, my apologies.
My experience of the IAM is perhaps very different to yours - it's far from perfect but it does have loads of good people within from all backgrounds and driving/riding all sorts of vehicles, doing great training/coaching with enthusiasm and skill. I think this needs to be pointed out sometimes that's all.
My experience of the IAM is that it was sound. It's the 'utter Gareths' who represent it online that are the problem.My original post on this thread wasn't actually aimed at you but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to instigate a defence of those that want to disparage advanced driving in general and the IAM specifically. I don't understand why you would do this.
I stand by my original post and it wasn't aimed at one individual (you or otherwise) - I think perhaps you may have misunderstood in which case, my apologies.
My experience of the IAM is perhaps very different to yours - it's far from perfect but it does have loads of good people within from all backgrounds and driving/riding all sorts of vehicles, doing great training/coaching with enthusiasm and skill. I think this needs to be pointed out sometimes that's all.
Edited by martine on Tuesday 19th August 18:23
My problem is you slagged me over not knowing what AD is, when in actual fact I have IAM and RoADAR certificates. Too quick to wade in without knowing who your dealing with see?
Out of curiosity why are you jumping to that person's defense?
What he did was completely reprehensible, he went about his manouvre in a completely ambiguous, very aggressive way, and then blamed the other drivers to the point of humiliating them on YT, I'd give odds you patted him on the back for it, now the tables are turned and this has been exposed for what it is, why not admit it for what it was and move on?
I know pals stick together and look after one another but at what price? You aren't doing yourself any favours and more importantly you aren't helping the public perception of the IAM much either.
dombooth said:
Consider the taking down a peg or two done, none of us are perfect, we all learn new things every day. Today is a day I have done.
Dom
That's all it took, well done!Dom
Congratulations to someone who Manned up!
Your videos were destroyed on reading this, before me replying.
Best wishes for the future. I'll leave it there now and let the thread die.
jimmy156 said:
25NAD90TUL - You need to take a deep breath and calm down. What other people do on the internet really isn't worth getting so worked up about, get some perspective man!
Furthermore, snooping to 'check' when people are online and downloading their videos and sending them to people? Get a grip!
I'm not/wasn't worked up.Furthermore, snooping to 'check' when people are online and downloading their videos and sending them to people? Get a grip!
Nobody was snooping, I had the website open where the link to the vids lives, where the person happened to be showing online.
sideways20vT said:
It really is a shame.
I would love to join a group such as the IAM but the impression I get is they mainly made up of Alan Partidge type characters. It may be wrong, but that's my impression (not helped by threads like this and some of the bizarre postings in the "advanced driving" area on this forum.
I am passionate about cars and driving and would love to improve my driving skills and share my passion with other like-minded people. There is such a gap in the market for an organisation that is not patronising and is focused on improving driving skills in a relaxed environment.
Just putting this out there - Pistonheads Advanced Drivers Club?
Hi, the IAM is basically a sound organisation, their heart is totally in the right place, by improving driver awareness, observation and responsibility when on-road and therefore improving road safety, they are a wonderful resource that I thoroughly recommend.I would love to join a group such as the IAM but the impression I get is they mainly made up of Alan Partidge type characters. It may be wrong, but that's my impression (not helped by threads like this and some of the bizarre postings in the "advanced driving" area on this forum.
I am passionate about cars and driving and would love to improve my driving skills and share my passion with other like-minded people. There is such a gap in the market for an organisation that is not patronising and is focused on improving driving skills in a relaxed environment.
Just putting this out there - Pistonheads Advanced Drivers Club?
The problem is this, while the IAM has something like 40,000 (estimate) members, there exists a handful, and it is only a handful maybe 50 or so that congregate on a certain website dedicated to advanced driving in the UK.
This website, which will be found by every prospective advanced driver who is thinking of perhaps making a start, is where my issue lies, not with the IAM. The website has no affiliation or ties to the IAM whatsoever.
However those members of said website who are IAM members are in the habit of posting their IAM status as signatures which appear as a footnote to everything they post there. This is the problem. Much of the content posted there is one of three things, advice/methods which are completely anathema to the IAM training, OR criticising the IAM on the grounds of it being a kind of fanatical dogma OR so pedantic and petty to be completely off-putting to that prospect I mentioned earlier who is doing an internet search with a view to perhaps doing the IAM training.
That, for those who don't understand it, is my issue. It's about the people on that website bringing the IAM name down and putting prospective new members off. I'd estimate that a 'bloody lot' have been put off by this web presence. A lot of the members there are of the opinion that the content may be off-putting. A lot of public posts mention this.
Some of the nature of those persons has been displayed in this thread, it IS very off-putting, and threads like this are very off-putting too, I take responsibility here, but the issue of this other website thing is not going to go away without attention being brought to it. The website is where links to the videos were originally posted.
The IAM are in regular correspondence with me over this issue being a former member of both the IAM and my local IAM group who has 'bailed' precisely over this very issue. They are aware of the issue with this private website and are keen to do something about IAM senior members flying the IAM flag there but unfortunately they don't presently know what they can do about it.
StressedDave said:
I didn't miss it; what you appear to have missed however is that, other than your knowledge that Dom is a local Chairman, there's no reference to his YouTube channel being anything other than personal.
The videos were, as you know, linked to via a thread on a public website where Doms' signature states his IAM status.eta: fwiw Dom has emerged out of this ok, other members are however, just digging themselves a deeper hole.
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Thursday 21st August 11:51
martine said:
edited:
25NAD90UTL's view of the IAM and ADUK is a personal view.
My personal view of ADUK is somewhat different...
ADUK has a wealth of info, witty discussion, debate and yes occasionally downright argument - about all things 'advanced'. Some contributors are IAM members but many are not and have come to AD via a different route. There are ROSPA members, HPC members, serving police, retired police, driving instructors and loads just with an interest in driving and how to improve.
I cannot recommend ADUK enough
As you may have guessed, I am one of the 'admins' on ADUK and in all the time I've been a member (since 2005) it has developed my driving no-end, I've met some lovely people and it's all free (inc. the driving days).
Yes Martin thanks, we know all this.25NAD90UTL's view of the IAM and ADUK is a personal view.
My personal view of ADUK is somewhat different...
ADUK has a wealth of info, witty discussion, debate and yes occasionally downright argument - about all things 'advanced'. Some contributors are IAM members but many are not and have come to AD via a different route. There are ROSPA members, HPC members, serving police, retired police, driving instructors and loads just with an interest in driving and how to improve.
I cannot recommend ADUK enough
As you may have guessed, I am one of the 'admins' on ADUK and in all the time I've been a member (since 2005) it has developed my driving no-end, I've met some lovely people and it's all free (inc. the driving days).
A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true, you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.
You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.
You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status. I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter, to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns, (not me I hasten to add) but you just laughed about it at ADUK, good on you really I guess. I don't rejoin just for the purpose of posting vitriol, and it would be that way if I were to.
Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.
The only trouble with it is the IAM is desperate for an insight into how it's image can be improved, they are guilty of burying their heads in the sand at times, very much so.
Anyway Martin, nice talking to you again, however the other day I cared, today I couldn't care less. Where you get me very wrong though is that I actually DO like the IAM very much in theory. I still drive as if every day was test day when I'm on-road, I suppose that's all that matters really.
There's no point in my discussing this further, you're not going to change and neither am I.
Best wishes. (No sarcasm there, genuine best wishes)
25NAD90TUL said:
Yes Martin thanks, we know all this.
A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true, you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.
You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.
You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status. I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter, to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns, (not me I hasten to add) but you just laughed about it at ADUK, good on you really I guess. I don't rejoin just for the purpose of posting vitriol, and it would be that way if I were to.
Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.
The only trouble with it is the IAM is desperate for an insight into how it's image can be improved, they are guilty of burying their heads in the sand at times, very much so.
Anyway Martin, nice talking to you again, however the other day I cared, today I couldn't care less. Where you get me very wrong though is that I actually DO like the IAM very much in theory. I still drive as if every day was test day when I'm on-road, I suppose that's all that matters really.
There's no point in my discussing this further, you're not going to change and neither am I.
Best wishes. (No sarcasm there, genuine best wishes)
eta: this whole thread really was about Dom's videos, and he emerged from it ok I'm glad to say, I respected him for that, so all's well that ends well really.A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true, you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.
You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.
You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status. I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter, to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns, (not me I hasten to add) but you just laughed about it at ADUK, good on you really I guess. I don't rejoin just for the purpose of posting vitriol, and it would be that way if I were to.
Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.
The only trouble with it is the IAM is desperate for an insight into how it's image can be improved, they are guilty of burying their heads in the sand at times, very much so.
Anyway Martin, nice talking to you again, however the other day I cared, today I couldn't care less. Where you get me very wrong though is that I actually DO like the IAM very much in theory. I still drive as if every day was test day when I'm on-road, I suppose that's all that matters really.
There's no point in my discussing this further, you're not going to change and neither am I.
Best wishes. (No sarcasm there, genuine best wishes)
I'm sure Bristol group IAM is everything Martine says it is.
ADUK should be banned from the internet period.
IAM members should be banned from stating their IAM status there at the very least.
Although they mostly say 'any views expressed are those of my own' or something similar, the IAM signature negates this.
When these views are seen in the same light as posts advocating H&T and hand-held mobile phone use, speeding and other matters sometimes even contrary to the HC etc, the views expressed ARE taken to be IAM people's views by the majority of readers perhaps not 'in the know'.
The view of a senior IAM member is the view of a senior IAM member, whether he chooses the 'any views expressed' signature or not.
Posts about the content being off-putting to newcomers are commonplace within the public boards.
My points about the nature of the place are underlined by the fact that Martine came into this thread to defend the (erroneous) actions of an ADUK member. Had it been a non-member he wouldn't have.
ADUK is giving the IAM and RoADAR a bad name, period. IAM people should not be admin there, or should be doing it without any mention of them being involved with IAM.
Be an internet driving clique by all means, just leave them out of it.
As stressed has said, don't add weight to posts there that are not compliant with the IAM method, underscored with the IAM status thing, surely you can see the failing in this Martin?
Having said all that, ADUK's probably glad of all this publicity. Doh!
eta:
You were right about the funds issue being raised in letters to the newsletter though, that point was raised IIRC on the IAM forum by several members when this subject was brought up.
ADUK should be banned from the internet period.
IAM members should be banned from stating their IAM status there at the very least.
Although they mostly say 'any views expressed are those of my own' or something similar, the IAM signature negates this.
When these views are seen in the same light as posts advocating H&T and hand-held mobile phone use, speeding and other matters sometimes even contrary to the HC etc, the views expressed ARE taken to be IAM people's views by the majority of readers perhaps not 'in the know'.
The view of a senior IAM member is the view of a senior IAM member, whether he chooses the 'any views expressed' signature or not.
Posts about the content being off-putting to newcomers are commonplace within the public boards.
My points about the nature of the place are underlined by the fact that Martine came into this thread to defend the (erroneous) actions of an ADUK member. Had it been a non-member he wouldn't have.
ADUK is giving the IAM and RoADAR a bad name, period. IAM people should not be admin there, or should be doing it without any mention of them being involved with IAM.
Be an internet driving clique by all means, just leave them out of it.
As stressed has said, don't add weight to posts there that are not compliant with the IAM method, underscored with the IAM status thing, surely you can see the failing in this Martin?
Having said all that, ADUK's probably glad of all this publicity. Doh!
eta:
martine said:
how was I 'spending funds' to push ADUK anyway?)
Do IAM funds not pay for the local group newsletter then? You were right about the funds issue being raised in letters to the newsletter though, that point was raised IIRC on the IAM forum by several members when this subject was brought up.
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Friday 22 August 14:04
neil1jnr said:
People actually record 'bad driving' as a hobby?
t
ts
In this instance, as in many examples of that type of video, it was the person with the camera who was driving badly, then posting the video to demonstrate the other drivers' failings, which he had caused with a dodgy manouvre. This was further aggravated by the fact that the camera man was an IAM advanced driver and local IAM group chairman.t
tseta: And also a member of Advanced Driving UK.
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Friday 22 August 12:29
martine said:
25NAD90TUL
Crikey - your suggesting lots of 'banning'!
You are sooo wrong in much that you say in the last post I really don't know where to begin...I also notice you didn't respond to my questions (again) so on that basis I give up and I hope if there is anyone else still reading this thread (well done for persevence by the way!) they can make their own judgement about me, you, ADUK and the IAM.
I'd have been happy to leave all this two and a half pages ago, when dom made his comment.Crikey - your suggesting lots of 'banning'!
You are sooo wrong in much that you say in the last post I really don't know where to begin...I also notice you didn't respond to my questions (again) so on that basis I give up and I hope if there is anyone else still reading this thread (well done for persevence by the way!) they can make their own judgement about me, you, ADUK and the IAM.
Edited by martine on Friday 22 August 19:04
But you brought brought in the big 'I'm an admin at ADUK' guns and carried it on.
I know nothing of your personal life, IAM or ADUK workload, so can't answer your questions, I can only comment on how it looks to an outsider.
We know I don't agree with ADUK. We know you are an admin there and don't agree with me.
I'd much rather have left it where it was on tuesday after dom commented.
Now it's just you and I arguing about the validity of ADUK.
Neither of us is going to gain much ground with this.
Let's agree to differ, and fwiw, I secretly admire your loyalty and tenacity, ok so ADUK isn't for me, but that's by the by and I'm sure is not viewed as any loss by you or anyone else there.
Nor is IAM currently.
Let people make their own mind up as you say.
I'm sure that we both acknowledge the fact that advanced driving has a poor image, for whatever reasons and I'm sure we'd both like that to change, so we have a common aim, just that our views on the causes differ.
As long as we are both safe and responsible on-road does any of this matter? Probably not I'm guessing.
Shall we leave it at that now?
Best wishes.
MC Bodge said:
It has been suggested in the past that "Mr/Ms 25NAD90TUL" might have been jilted by or left for some sort of Senior IAM observer.
Whatever the story, there appears to be a degree of obsession about both Roadcraft and revenge against the IAM at play.
Ps I'm not an IAM member.
Your witt and rhetoric aren't exactly sparkling are they?Whatever the story, there appears to be a degree of obsession about both Roadcraft and revenge against the IAM at play.
Ps I'm not an IAM member.
No it's nothing so trifling.
It's not about the IAM.
It is a deeply rooted loathing of ADUK and the majority of it's membership.
And a pathological hatred of Martin and Dominic, and another member who hasn't appeared in this thread.
Bit slow on the uptake Bodge eh.
When I saw an opportunity to publicly humiliate Dominic I took it, gleefully.
Happy to say the general opinion matched my own.
MoelyCrio said:
Bunch of nobbers the lot of them. The motorbike ones are even worse.
Hi, interesting input.Are you basing that on what you've read here? I'm very flawed, but I'm taking it you mean advanced driving people in general.
Or is your comment based on some other experience?
Can I ask respectfully in what way are advanced driving people flawed? I'm being very serious here, we've had some laughs on this thread but I would really value your opinion on why you consider them...flawed?
MC Bodge said:
And the cause of driver improvement, of whatever flavour, takes another battering....
...to satisfy an obsessive ego.
MCbodge aka ADUK member...to satisfy an obsessive ego.
You seem to be the one who's suggesting that approx 38,000,000 drivers can't drive.
Suppose I have to minus the 'advanced drivers' from that figure eh?
Yet I'm the one with the obsessive ego?
Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Sunday 24th August 11:45
MC Bodge said:
Joined ADUK, posted a few times, haven't bothered since. No affinity or tribalism at all.
You symbolise the worst in the reputation of further driver learning and possibly male internet behaviour in general.
I'm intrigued, is your behaviour the same in real life?
Back at you.You symbolise the worst in the reputation of further driver learning and possibly male internet behaviour in general.
I'm intrigued, is your behaviour the same in real life?
Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 24th August 11:50
I do recognise your internet pressence from there.
No my behaviour to be frank is only like this when dealing with you lot.
You were one of those people who continually criticised me over my adhering to and use of roadcraft, that to you was 'mental and obsessive'...
If we are going to talk on a civil level, can you explain that behaviour to me?
I'll explain a little bit of my behaviour, and this behaviour really is limited to these discussions, I have done AD as you know, I like it very much and have a good knowledge of RC and am a good exponent of the style. For me, whenever I have posted on this subject I feel as though I have been ridiculed, argued with, accused of being on medication, a mental patient a fundamentalist extremist etc etc, repeatedly.
I respond with this kind of internet vitriol because I have got nowhere with civility either. The people involved need to ask themselves why, it is simply because of the way I have been treated. Ask yourself, can this person really want to be perceived in this way? The answer is a resounding no, but the only way I've ever been responded to is this way, I feel as though I'm just responding in kind. It's a big shame, as I'm reading from the same hymn sheet as them, supposedly.
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