Definition of a hot hatch?

[Johnboy Mac]

I think the answer is rather simple.

Any car that can compete with the Golf GTi of '76>, provided it's based on a basic hatchback production model, be similar in size & function to the Golf and reasonably priced, have a performance advantage both in power & handling over the car it's built on and a few modest visible design 'go faster' features.

[iva cosworth]

Escort cosi.....defo Hot and its a hatch,who cares if its a Gp A rallycar or half

a Sierra Sapphire ,i don`t

[RobCrezz]

IMO anything that is a performance model of a hatchback can be a hot hatch.

Driven wheels doesnt matter, IMO. I think something can be a coupe AND a hot hatch also.

[5pen]

kambites said:

5pen said:

'Hot' and 'Hatch' - they are just two simple words so they are never going to define a sub-set of hundreds of differing designs over many years without exception. I'm not sure it really matters. If it's any help I have studied all of the above and I can confirm that they are all definitely cars.

That's about the best answer you're going to get, I think.

The weird "classes" that we ascribe to cars have never been absolute. Even the term "hatchback" is debatable, let alone when you add something as evocative as "hot" to the front of it.

I'd like to amend my original answer. I am certain in doesn't matter.

[StottyZr]

How the hell did this topic get so confusing. A hot hatch is a sporty hatchback. How an Impreza is even debated to be one amazes me...

Here's a little list to give you an idea of what a hot hatch is:
Volkswagen Golf Gti
Ford Focus St/RS
Renault Megane 225
Honda Civic Type-R
Pug 106 Gti
Pug 205 Gti
Pug 206 Gti
Pug 306 Gti
Ford Fiesta St
Audi S3
Mini Cooper S
Mg Zr 160
Clio 172/182/197
Seat Leon Cupra/Cupra R
Seat Ibiza Cupra
Toyota Corolla T-sport
Polo Gti
BMW 1 series (hatchback not couple) 125i/130i
Alfa 147 GTA

Notice, all hatchback cars. All sporty. Anything that = hatchback and sporty is a hot hatch

Tell tale signs = big wheels, big tyres, powerful engine (compared to rest of the range), fun and as above... a hatchback (not couple, saloon, estate or supermini)

[Marf]

Entirely subjective but...

FWD
Sub 1000kg
More than 130hp

[300bhp/ton]

otolith said:

kambites said:

The MG is definitely not a saloon - the rear window raises with the boot lid.

It's a 3 box design, though. "Notchback".

No more than a MKIII-V Escort though.

There was a saloon 400/45/ZS variant, but there was also the hatch as pictured.

[300bhp/ton]

soxboy said:

otolith said:

It would be a high performance version of a 3 or 5 door small hatchback car designed primarily for ordinary household transport duties.

This ^^^^^ (albeit edited slightly).

But wouldn't that rule out a Focus ST/RS as they are certainly not a small hatch?

And buy that rule it still would sort of let cars like a Puma count too, i.e. the 1.4 and 1.6 Puma's are small, have hatches and certainly where designed for ordinary household transport duties. Or at least designed as capable as a Ford KA mk1.

[Haribo Man]

Marf,

more than 100 BHP??

What about a 1.6 205 gti or MG Metro Turbo then? What are they

[Marf]

Haribo Man said:

What about a 1.6 205 gti or MG Metro Turbo then? What are they

Underpowered?

My opinion is coloured on 6 years ownership of Charade GTti/GTxx. Granted they are only 100hp standard, but 130hp is easily achieved, with 160-200 possible with more mods.

My last one, a GTxx had 160hp and was quite the little sleeper!

[300bhp/ton]

StottyZr said:

How the hell did this topic get so confusing. A hot hatch is a sporty hatchback. How an Impreza is even debated to be one amazes me...

Here's a little list to give you an idea of what a hot hatch is:
Volkswagen Golf Gti
Ford Focus St/RS
Renault Megane 225
Honda Civic Type-R
Pug 106 Gti
Pug 205 Gti
Pug 206 Gti
Pug 306 Gti
Ford Fiesta St
Audi S3
Mini Cooper S
Mg Zr 160
Clio 172/182/197
Seat Leon Cupra/Cupra R
Seat Ibiza Cupra
Toyota Corolla T-sport
Polo Gti
BMW 1 series (hatchback not couple) 125i/130i
Alfa 147 GTA

Notice, all hatchback cars. All sporty. Anything that = hatchback and sporty is a hot hatch

Tell tale signs = big wheels, big tyres, powerful engine (compared to rest of the range), fun and as above... a hatchback (not couple, saloon, estate or supermini)

Right, now read back what you've written.

"Notice, all hatchback cars. All sporty. Anything that = hatchback and sporty is a hot hatch "

So Impreza wagon:

hatch = check
sporty = check

Even taking your extra criteria (that most past 80's hatches would fail on)

big wheels = check
big tyres = check
powerful engine = check
fun = check
hatchback = check... it has a hatch as the back!

[300bhp/ton]

Johnboy Mac said:

I think the answer is rather simple.

Any car that can compete with the Golf GTi of '76>, provided it's based on a basic hatchback production model, be similar in size & function to the Golf and reasonably priced, have a performance advantage both in power & handling over the car it's built on and a few modest visible design 'go faster' features.

Why a Golf though? I know common folklore often cites it as the first, but it wasn't really. And certainly not for the terming.

[SteveS Cup]

I don't understand why this is such a difficult answer to reach but imo...

A hot hatch is something that is "nippy", fun and practical.

[kambites]

SteveS Cup said:

I don't understand why this is such a difficult answer to reach but imo...

A hot hatch is something that is "nippy", fun and practical.

Ah, so a Mercedes Sprinter is a hot hatch?

[Thesaint01708]

Haribo Man said:

Marf,

more than 100 BHP??

What about a 1.6 205 gti or MG Metro Turbo then? What are they

The pug was 115bhp and the 1.9 was 130bhp - doesnt sound alot but they weighed the same as a rizla.

[300bhp/ton]

SteveS Cup said:

I don't understand why this is such a difficult answer to reach but imo...

A hot hatch is something that is "nippy", fun and practical.

A bit like a classic Mini (that has no hatch ) or even an MX-5 if you only need 2 seats.... arguably if there is only a seating requirement for 1-2 people, then a 2 seater is far more practical as it actually fulfills the role better.

[5pen]

300bhp/ton said:

soxboy said:

otolith said:

It would be a high performance version of a 3 or 5 door small hatchback car designed primarily for ordinary household transport duties.

This ^^^^^ (albeit edited slightly).

But wouldn't that rule out a Focus ST/RS as they are certainly not a small hatch?

And buy that rule it still would sort of let cars like a Puma count too, i.e. the 1.4 and 1.6 Puma's are small, have hatches and certainly where designed for ordinary household transport duties. Or at least designed as capable as a Ford KA mk1.

I'll stick to my original answer, but I can't help myself... Why would that exclude the Focus? It's smaller than a Mondeo. Puma? Primarily for household transport duties? Not exactly the first car I'd think of for carrying more than 1 passenger, luggage/children/crap to the tip which are all things that could be considered houshold transport duties.

[kambites]

5pen said:

I'll stick to my original answer, but I can't help myself... Why would that exclude the Focus? It's smaller than a Mondeo. Puma? Primarily for household transport duties? Not exactly the first car I'd think of for carrying more than 1 passenger, luggage/children/crap to the tip which are all things that could be considered houshold transport duties.

I wouldn't consider any 3-door car for carrying more than 1 passenger, luggage/children/crap to the tip regularly.

[Thesaint01708]

A hot hatchback = B sector, FWD hatchback with extra 'garnish' compared to its standard model, and quicker to 60 than 9 seconds.

anything that looked sporty but didnt do the sub 9 seconds should be called luke warm hatch (Nova 1.3SR, corsa SXi etc)

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

No more than a MKIII-V Escort though.

There was a saloon 400/45/ZS variant, but there was also the hatch as pictured.

I must admit, I was thinking of this more than I was looking closely at your picture:



In this case, yes, hot hatch: