Why switch DSC/ESP off on public roads?
Discussion
softtop said:
in the mini I want a little wheel spin rather than the vehicle cutting out and me losing responsiveness.
The traction control in the Cooper S I had could be very intrusive occasionally resulting in losing power trying to slot into a gap of traffic so I quite often turned it off 
My current car has no traction/stability or ABS and I've not put it into a hedge yet
When ABS came out manufacturers fitted on/off switches so that the Driving Gods who figured they could outbrake a processor that could take a wheel to the edge of lock up 20 times a second would still buy their cars. Gradually, as people finally clued themselves up, the buttons disappeared.
I'd imagine ESP buttons will go the same way and systems will be permanently on so Driving Gods who think they can control a car better than a system that can brake individual wheels don't get to be Heros.
I do love all the "I haven't got ESP and I'm still alive" comments, what does that prove exactly? No doubt plenty said the same about seatbelts.
I'd imagine ESP buttons will go the same way and systems will be permanently on so Driving Gods who think they can control a car better than a system that can brake individual wheels don't get to be Heros.
I do love all the "I haven't got ESP and I'm still alive" comments, what does that prove exactly? No doubt plenty said the same about seatbelts.
Ari said:
When ABS came out manufacturers fitted on/off switches so that the Driving Gods who figured they could outbrake a processor that could take a wheel to the edge of lock up 20 times a second would still buy their cars. Gradually, as people finally clued themselves up, the buttons disappeared.
I'd imagine ESP buttons will go the same way and systems will be permanently on so Driving Gods who think they can control a car better than a system that can brake individual wheels don't get to be Heros.
I do love all the "I haven't got ESP and I'm still alive" comments, what does that prove exactly? No doubt plenty said the same about seatbelts.
to be totally fair, just like for fledgeling DSC systems, at the start, a good driver WAS better than the early ABS systems, especially over bumps etc!! These days, er, no chance ;-)I'd imagine ESP buttons will go the same way and systems will be permanently on so Driving Gods who think they can control a car better than a system that can brake individual wheels don't get to be Heros.
I do love all the "I haven't got ESP and I'm still alive" comments, what does that prove exactly? No doubt plenty said the same about seatbelts.
Rotary Madness said:
Sometimes, some of us are better then the DSC/ABS etc. Thats not to says we're super driving gods*, but the cars we drive have crap systems 
True, Walter Röhrl managed to get around the 'Ring 3 seconds quicker in a Carrera 4 with PSM switched off. And admitted that he felt safer with it left on. But I'm sure most PHers are handier wheelmen than that..
Once thing to consider is that parked cars don't skid, so the activation of these systems are only to get you out of a situation you as the driver got yourself into and may not have the skills to get out of.
Your driving should not differ regardless of whether the systems are switched on or not, because relying on these systems to get you out of a situation (and not if they were switched on or off) would be the truly irresponsible thing.
I'm fortunate enough to have instructed on a skidpan for a couple of years and so had some chance to 'arse about' a little. As a result of this I tend have my traction control switched off mostly because I prefer the unmuddied feedback and of course it helps when you're in the mood for a little hooning (although I'm definitely not saying I'm a driving god!).
An interesting but perhaps difficult question to ask yourself if that if you're not confident driving your current car with the driver aids turned off, then is that a suitable car for you?
Your driving should not differ regardless of whether the systems are switched on or not, because relying on these systems to get you out of a situation (and not if they were switched on or off) would be the truly irresponsible thing.
I'm fortunate enough to have instructed on a skidpan for a couple of years and so had some chance to 'arse about' a little. As a result of this I tend have my traction control switched off mostly because I prefer the unmuddied feedback and of course it helps when you're in the mood for a little hooning (although I'm definitely not saying I'm a driving god!).
An interesting but perhaps difficult question to ask yourself if that if you're not confident driving your current car with the driver aids turned off, then is that a suitable car for you?
Ari said:
When ABS came out manufacturers fitted on/off switches so that the Driving Gods who figured they could outbrake a processor that could take a wheel to the edge of lock up 20 times a second would still buy their cars. Gradually, as people finally clued themselves up, the buttons disappeared.
No they didn't. Manufacturers fitted off buttons to ABS systems because they knew their customers occassionally need to drive on snow and gravel where ABS doesn't work. They then realised the vast majority of their customers, like you, were unaware of this so there was no point continuing to fit the switch.Jimmyarm said:
The traction control in the Cooper S I had could be very intrusive occasionally resulting in losing power trying to slot into a gap of traffic so I quite often turned it off
My current car has no traction/stability or ABS and I've not put it into a hedge yet
Yes, I found the TC overly intrusive in the Cooper S I drove about 3 years ago - it felt noticeably quicker with it switched off, particularly when accelerating out of corners.My current car has no traction/stability or ABS and I've not put it into a hedge yet
Until they fit cars with 4 brake pedals (and us humans evolve some more feet ;-) then DSC provides a level of yaw authority that no driver can match, which maybe, just maybe, could save the day.
I tend to leave the DSC on, especially once speeds get above say 50mph, and i find that nice smooth accurate driving really never triggers the DSC anyway.
If you are one of those drivers that saws away at the handwheel as if they are trying to mix concrete, then well, i can see what you might think the system is "obtrusive".....
I tend to leave the DSC on, especially once speeds get above say 50mph, and i find that nice smooth accurate driving really never triggers the DSC anyway.
If you are one of those drivers that saws away at the handwheel as if they are trying to mix concrete, then well, i can see what you might think the system is "obtrusive".....
dave1409 said:
Jimmyarm said:
The traction control in the Cooper S I had could be very intrusive occasionally resulting in losing power trying to slot into a gap of traffic so I quite often turned it off
My current car has no traction/stability or ABS and I've not put it into a hedge yet
Yes, I found the TC overly intrusive in the Cooper S I drove about 3 years ago - it felt noticeably quicker with it switched off, particularly when accelerating out of corners.My current car has no traction/stability or ABS and I've not put it into a hedge yet
DSC can be a bit irritating though can't it? Pulling away from a wet T-junction and the inside wheel spins up over a manhole cover, the engine cuts the power and you get extremely jerky progress. With DSC off in the same situation, it just spins momentarily then regains traction with no inhibition to forward progress. Same in an overtake, sometimes the wheels might want to spin up a little, but I'd far rather that than have the car decide to inhibit power delivery mid-overtake.
I think it's better to have it than not have it though since generally most road drivers aren't familiar with a car where the back end is breaking away.
I think it's better to have it than not have it though since generally most road drivers aren't familiar with a car where the back end is breaking away.
Incitatus said:
An interesting but perhaps difficult question to ask yourself if that if you're not confident driving your current car with the driver aids turned off, then is that a suitable car for you?
Interesting take on it!To be fair I'd be perfectly confident to drive my car without DSC, I had a TF before the Z4 and that had nothing of the sort. However, I wouldn't switch off on the street because I know that if I cock something up (as apparently I did today!) it can save me more effectively than I can save myself!
If I didn't have it then I'd simply attempt to save myself the old fashioned way, or accept the consequences of cocking up!
Caulkhead said:
Ari said:
When ABS came out manufacturers fitted on/off switches so that the Driving Gods who figured they could outbrake a processor that could take a wheel to the edge of lock up 20 times a second would still buy their cars. Gradually, as people finally clued themselves up, the buttons disappeared.
No they didn't. Manufacturers fitted off buttons to ABS systems because they knew their customers occassionally need to drive on snow and gravel where ABS doesn't work. They then realised the vast majority of their customers, like you, were unaware of this so there was no point continuing to fit the switch.My dad for example, he never got used to ABS.
softtop said:
in the mini I want a little wheel spin rather than the vehicle cutting out and me losing responsiveness.
This.When I drove an R54 Cooper S, I found it to be very intrusive, accelerating away from a junction and the bloody thing kicked in. Having only ever driven front wheel drive cars, I was anticipating a small amount of wheelspin but the power was just slashed and I was left floundering, it doesn't exactly come back instantly either.
A good friends Golf diesel was hugely unforgiving, if driven vigorously and it didn't like it, it would throw you all over the road. Nice.
When I want it to move in the snow its off.
Sometimes it can cut in a touch early too, cutting the power prematurely. For all that though, I leave mine on, save snow.
Edit: @Herebemonsters: I currently do, I only ever see it if I'm farting about doing lift off oversteer
TC comes on occassionally though, can be irksome but not exactly the end of days.
Sometimes it can cut in a touch early too, cutting the power prematurely. For all that though, I leave mine on, save snow.
Edit: @Herebemonsters: I currently do, I only ever see it if I'm farting about doing lift off oversteer
TC comes on occassionally though, can be irksome but not exactly the end of days.Edited by roachcoach on Sunday 12th June 19:11
Finlandia said:
Caulkhead said:
Ari said:
When ABS came out manufacturers fitted on/off switches so that the Driving Gods who figured they could outbrake a processor that could take a wheel to the edge of lock up 20 times a second would still buy their cars. Gradually, as people finally clued themselves up, the buttons disappeared.
No they didn't. Manufacturers fitted off buttons to ABS systems because they knew their customers occassionally need to drive on snow and gravel where ABS doesn't work. They then realised the vast majority of their customers, like you, were unaware of this so there was no point continuing to fit the switch.My dad for example, he never got used to ABS.
I'm happy if people want to turn it off, and don't forget it's off.
I'm happy if I turn it off myself and then go for a play, knowing it's not there to rescue any cack handedness I may make.
I wasn't happy with myself when I jumped in the car on the way to work, turned it off, and whilst driving out of my estate got distracted by what I was going to do at work that day, completely forgot it was turned off and promptly span out on the first big roundabout.
Taught me that it's silly to turn it off unless you are just going out for a play.
I'm happy if I turn it off myself and then go for a play, knowing it's not there to rescue any cack handedness I may make.
I wasn't happy with myself when I jumped in the car on the way to work, turned it off, and whilst driving out of my estate got distracted by what I was going to do at work that day, completely forgot it was turned off and promptly span out on the first big roundabout.
Taught me that it's silly to turn it off unless you are just going out for a play.
fwaggie said:
Taught me that it's silly to turn it off unless you are just going out for a play.
Usually it's the opposite of this though isn't it? i.e. completely quiet road, early morning, exit roundabout on the gas, curse because the DSC is flashing at you to remind you that you didn't press the fun button before setting off. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff