Wrong wheel drive BMW from 2013?

[Debaser]

thinfourth2 said:

Kawasicki said:

kambites said:

The reason, and indeed the reason they have stuck with RWD for so long, is their image. Joe Public may not give a damn how their car handles, but they still go out and buy the one that journalists tell them drives best.

Concise and precise!

Agree

however i'm sure BMW have being going over to FWD since the early 90s

I'm sure there was spy shots of a FWD E36 mule which had the front wheels set way back almost at the A pillars.


But to annoy the BMW purists RWD is a marketing department choice not the engineers

There's no way BMW engineers would choose to make their cars worse to drive.

[Jimbo.]

Debaser said:

thinfourth2 said:

Kawasicki said:

kambites said:

The reason, and indeed the reason they have stuck with RWD for so long, is their image. Joe Public may not give a damn how their car handles, but they still go out and buy the one that journalists tell them drives best.

Concise and precise!

Agree

however i'm sure BMW have being going over to FWD since the early 90s

I'm sure there was spy shots of a FWD E36 mule which had the front wheels set way back almost at the A pillars.


But to annoy the BMW purists RWD is a marketing department choice not the engineers

There's no way BMW engineers would choose to make their cars worse to drive.

But the bean-counters see things differently!

[Mouse1903]

Cupramax said:

At least this customer will be happy

Ha ha, this picture never gets old!

[FamilyDub]

Maybe the FWD 1-GT is a good thing and am I only one who really doesn't feel the outrage that seems to ring round PH forums?!

All the numpties who don't know/care what the driven wheels are get their packaging-optimised cars, sales soar, then the ///M division nutters get much more cash to make proper cars all us lot do want.

[robsco]

Is it just me, or is this "wrong wheel drive" nonsense entirely spouted by those who class themselves as "pure" because they drive RWD cars? Or is it solely because they feel they'll get hero status from their fellow narrow minded individuals?

[Paul Dishman]

robsco said:

Is it just me, or is this "wrong wheel drive" nonsense entirely spouted by those who class themselves as "pure" because they drive RWD cars? Or is it solely because they feel they'll get hero status from their fellow narrow minded individuals?

Its both!
There was a letter in Evo a month or so back from some numpty who said that he preferred a BMW diesel shopping trolley over a Clio Cup

[J4CKO]

The wheels drive the car !

We thought the exhaust smoke pushed it along.


A 1 Series driver yesterday....

[thinfourth2]

Debaser said:

thinfourth2 said:

But to annoy the BMW purists RWD is a marketing department choice not the engineers

There's no way BMW engineers would choose to make their cars worse to drive.

Did you actually read what you quoted?

BMW engineers made the MINI which is FWD

And if you think a lard bucket 4 door diesel is the ultimate driving machine i suggest you go drive something a 1000Kgs lighter

[StottyZr]

Mr Whippy said:

I'll have a proper sporty hatch from Renault thanks.

Dave

I don't like that you've said this as I don't want to agree. But you've got to give it to Renault, they are making properly fast fwd hatches.

[Mr Whippy]

StottyZr said:

Mr Whippy said:

I'll have a proper sporty hatch from Renault thanks.

Dave

I don't like that you've said this as I don't want to agree. But you've got to give it to Renault, they are making properly fast fwd hatches.

It just shows it can be done, and that there is a market for hot hatches.

Arguably the best big hatch (Megane), though I preferred the old size/shape one, new one is crap.

Best mid range hatch in the Clio.

Best small hatch in the Twingo.

All seem pretty pure, have had/have hardcore versions too (R26.R, Cup Clio etc)...


BMW are going to have to make it absolutely amazing to drive to justify it existing at all... but of course I expect it to sell by the truckload to morons, but then selling loads of cars to morons doesn't make them good cars, just well marketed products

Dave

[HarryW]

Paul Dishman said:

Its both!
There was a letter in Evo a month or so back from some numpty who said that he preferred a BMW diesel shopping trolley over a Clio Cup

I don't remember writing that letter but I could have because if you asked me if I'd rather a 1 series td over the reggie, the 1 would win every time, but that's me.
BM offering fwd has been on the cards for while, it did not go amiss that the last couple of winters that a lot of co car drivers stranded by the side of the road either had 3/5 series or C/E classes. I'm personally aware of at least 3 company car drivers that have chopped from BM to Audi fwd or 4wd drive this year purely for the winter capabilities.

[Mr Whippy]

HarryW said:

Paul Dishman said:

Its both!
There was a letter in Evo a month or so back from some numpty who said that he preferred a BMW diesel shopping trolley over a Clio Cup

I don't remember writing that letter but I could have because if you asked me if I'd rather a 1 series td over the reggie, the 1 would win every time, but that's me.
BM offering fwd has been on the cards for while, it did not go amiss that the last couple of winters that a lot of co car drivers stranded by the side of the road either had 3/5 series or C/E classes. I'm personally aware of at least 3 company car drivers that have chopped from BM to Audi fwd or 4wd drive this year purely for the winter capabilities.

I wonder if they have an aversion for appropriate tyres if getting around is really that important

Lets not pretend BMW are making a fwd model because of people needing to get around in the snow. BMW also offer awd models of most of their cars, but we just don't get them in the UK.

The FWD car is good business sense. BMW will sell bucket loads. Indeed they already do sell lots of image over substance fwd stuff in the shape of the MINI. Even I like the MINI's (not all these other things called MINI's though)

But lets not pretend that it's going to be anything like the 'drivers' stuff BMW can actually make when the buyers are not being image conscious nancies who wouldn't know a truly good steer if it hit them!

Dace

[Pig Skill]

Kawasicki said:

aka_kerrly said:

Wrong wheel drive, give it a rest!
I think it has been well proven that 90+% of BMW owners don't know and don't care which wheels are driven so BMW are simply reacting to their market. Why would BMW spend extra developing a RWD chassis for a people mover when it won't benefit the potential buyers.

Never let the truth rest, front wheel drive is wrong wheel drive*.

• unless of course you are a car company that has big plans for certain high volume oriental markets where rear seat space and ride comfort are valued very highly.

Head of nail well hit!

I was reading EVO mag's review of the new Roller and apparently the Chinese market place great importance on rear legroom.

[AV12]

This isn't news, or even new news. Keep up lads.

[Mr Sparkle]

Cupramax said:

At least this customer will be happy

Maybe he preferred oversteer to understeer.

[lance1a]

Don't forget that with the Mini BMW bought into the company once the Rover group had already pretty much designed the thing, for BMW it was about getting a foothold in a small car segment that would eventually lead them into a better tax position in the US (with US/California demanding a zero emission car by a certain date) with the mini E and other low emissions cars that would have thwe effect of lowering the overall emissions rating for the group. The fact that the mini sold as well as it did was as much of a surprise to BMW as it was to everyone else. The car had been penned as FWD and was too late to make any drastic changes.

[Alfanatic]

Paul Dishman said:

Its both!
There was a letter in Evo a month or so back from some numpty who said that he preferred a BMW diesel shopping trolley over a Clio Cup

That is allowed, you know.

[sleep envy]

robsco said:

Is it just me, or is this "wrong wheel drive" nonsense entirely spouted by those who class themselves as "pure" because they drive RWD cars? Or is it solely because they feel they'll get hero status from their fellow narrow minded individuals?

you can't blame them as that mantra is sewn into the waste band of their nomex underpants

[Alfanatic]

Mr Whippy said:

I wonder if they have an aversion for appropriate tyres if getting around is really that important

Lets not pretend BMW are making a fwd model because of people needing to get around in the snow. BMW also offer awd models of most of their cars, but we just don't get them in the UK.

The FWD car is good business sense. BMW will sell bucket loads. Indeed they already do sell lots of image over substance fwd stuff in the shape of the MINI. Even I like the MINI's (not all these other things called MINI's though)

But lets not pretend that it's going to be anything like the 'drivers' stuff BMW can actually make when the buyers are not being image conscious nancies who wouldn't know a truly good steer if it hit them!

Dace

Sorry, I know you're referring to more than just the steering when you say "truly good steer", but despite the potential advantages offered by sending the drive to the non steering wheels, good steering is rarely a feature in a BMW. It really should be, but their engineers seem more concerned about 50:50 and clever diffs.

[Dave_ST220]

Mr Whippy said:

I'll have a proper sporty hatch from Renault thanks.

Dave

Dave, you've been saying that since I have been on here. You still haven't got one! Why is that?