Mrs bought clio from a trade, with problems and sold as seen

[muley]

what happened? If it's OK now (and I'd check it thoroughly!) then £40 might be a bargain..

[treetops]

Chances he knew all along and was hoping with her being a little clueless he'd get away with it.

Check the coilpack also - they have a nasty habit of failing on the Clio 2 1.2.

[Chainguy]

Can anyone clued in tell me what actually makes you a trader? Just when I read the part about 'trader working from his driveway' etc, and legal rights at this end of the market, the sub £1k stuff.

I only ask because in the past I have been asked to source cars for friends at this price point, due to being a mechanic 20 odd years ago. I've also bought stuff from the classifieds before that has been undervalued and just needed a usually labour costly, but parts cheap, fix, and drove it for a few weeks then sold it on.

Honest question, does this mean I'm stepping into trader territory and suddenly going to find myself with a legal position based on a car I sell as a, IMHO, private sale?

I've never sold a wrongun, and once took a hit on one that was clearly a ringer once I got it back to my garage and got the carpets up (I made sure a scrappy mate crushed it) even though it'd probably been ten years plus since it was done. SO, I'm not out to knowingly screw anyone.

Just nervous that suddenly I could find myself in a world of grief because I've sold say 4 cars since the start of the year from home and suddenly I'm a 'trader', and have to watch out because it seems everyone in the UK - and this isn't a dig at the OP - wants a 'main dealer quality' car for a bag of buttons and a cola chew.

I always work on your eye is your guide, take as long as you like to look it over, and you can borrow my drive on ramps if you like to see under it, bring a mechanic mate, have a night to think it over etc, and when you drive it away, it's yours to deal with. Bit like when I buy them really.

So

[Porkie]

Can't the guy just tell you to jog on?

Its just a private sale isn't it?

Sold as seen. Your GF even signed a receipt to say that.

[Porkie]

Chainguy said:

Just nervous that suddenly I could find myself in a world of grief because I've sold say 4 cars since the start of the year from home and suddenly I'm a 'trader', and have to watch out because it seems everyone in the UK - and this isn't a dig at the OP - wants a 'main dealer quality' car for a bag of buttons and a cola chew.

I always work on your eye is your guide, take as long as you like to look it over, and you can borrow my drive on ramps if you like to see under it, bring a mechanic mate, have a night to think it over etc, and when you drive it away, it's yours to deal with. Bit like when I buy them really.

So

I totally agree with how you see it!


I bought a car off someone on here recently. He said the Aircon and Cruise worked fine. As it turns out both were broken when he sold it to me

Is that his fault?

Nope! its mine! I should have checked it out when buying it.

[300bhp/ton]

amdowney said:

So my GF passed her test and we decided for about £1k clio 1.2 would fit the bill nicely. After seeing a load of tatty ones we come across one in very good condition from a trade seller working from home and took it for a test drive. There was a slight exhaust rattle from the front at low revs but it drove well and we had enough of hunting so just went for it knowing for this money no car will be perfect.

The guy accepted £900 cash and he dropped the car off as the GF wasn't confdent driving on unknown roads yet.

2 days later I go out with her in it for the first time while she gets used to it and we didn't even get out of our street before it stalls with the orange coil engine light coming on. Great!

The next day I managed to get it going with enough revs to prevent the engine from stalling and get it around to the local garage by which time the light went off. It seems it had a front end rebuild and was told that perhaps the sensor on the top has just come loose which he pushed down on. Map sensor error code was in the memory. Then he takes it for a spin and we notice a load of fluid on the floor which seems to be coolant (looks like it's been topped up with water) so I am keeping an eye on the levels.

I get it back and today again on starting the orange light is back on!

So here we are with this car with leaking coolant and an electrical issue, sold by a tradesman at home who when doing the paperwork with my Polish GF put "sold as seen, tried and tested, no refund or warranties given' to which she had no idea about and signed the receipt.

I could punch him.

From what I gather though traders cannot take away consumer's rights by using terms such as ‘sold as seen’ unless they declare the problems as it should be fit for purpose.

I am going pay the local garage to plug the diagnostics machine back in to see what comes up now but I guess I need to make a judgement whether to go back to the dealer and kick up a fuss or not depending on the severity of the issues.

Is it worth me going back to this dodgy home dealer for the above issues already or could they be easily resolved? (I did call him when the light came on the first time and said its probably an o2 sensor, which need replacing like batteries so it's just bad luck) I guess I need to see what the garage says now but it's gonna cost!


Thanks anyone...

Edited by amdowney on Sunday 16th October 11:54

Edited by amdowney on Monday 17th October 21:32

I wish over 18's would take responsibility for their own actions sometimes, instead of trying to palm it off on others.


And how fking lazy do you have to be to only do your research AFTER you've been out and bought a car.

Know you rights, take responsibility for your own actions and don't get in such situations in the first place, or if you do, at least then have the fore knowledge on what to do about it.

[300bhp/ton]

freecar said:

Take it back for a refund, if he gives you any trouble quote SOGA at him, you know he's not allowed to discharge his responsibilities with a blanket statement like that, I'm sure he knows too!

But your advice is also wrong and also bks. And as you are saying this, it is perfectly evident you haven't read any of SOGA or you wouldn't be giving out such bad advice.

[300bhp/ton]

amdowney said:

But still for £1000 you are sold a car that is all working. Not leaking and stalling through a bodged repair. The seller is in the wrong clearly

Clearly you are making a sweeping judgment without proof.

However your girlfriend drove the car prior to purchase, and the car was driven to her as delivery. So it was "all working" at those times.

If the fault is new, or only just occurred, then why is it the sellers fault?

I'm not saying it isn't, but based on the facts and evidence you've presented so far, there certainly isn't a conclusive case.

[Chainguy]

Porkie said:

Chainguy said:

Just nervous that suddenly I could find myself in a world of grief because I've sold say 4 cars since the start of the year from home and suddenly I'm a 'trader', and have to watch out because it seems everyone in the UK - and this isn't a dig at the OP - wants a 'main dealer quality' car for a bag of buttons and a cola chew.

I always work on your eye is your guide, take as long as you like to look it over, and you can borrow my drive on ramps if you like to see under it, bring a mechanic mate, have a night to think it over etc, and when you drive it away, it's yours to deal with. Bit like when I buy them really.

So

I totally agree with how you see it!


I bought a car off someone on here recently. He said the Aircon and Cruise worked fine. As it turns out both were broken when he sold it to me

Is that his fault?

Nope! its mine! I should have checked it out when buying it.

Thanks mate, sounds like we're from the old school way of thinking!

The wrongun I bought, I was the same, I trusted the seller and trusted the surroundings. Garage next to the house like you have in your profile pic, chap in his 50's, upper class accent and name, obviously money'd, but the car was what it was. I don't think the guy knew it was rung years before, he used it as a station car, but there it was. No point crying. I went out to get a bargain, and got my leg lifted instead. Sadly back then steel was worth nothing, so I never even got decent money back on cubing it. Ah well.

Just nervous as I say in case one of these days I'll get someone's law team put onto me because the 10 year old motor I've sold them develops a fault a fortnight later, and they want compensation. Because it seems like these days, everybody wants compensation for something, and it's always someone elses fault.

[Porkie]

amdowney said:

But still for £1000 you are sold a car that is all working. Not leaking and stalling through a bodged repair. The seller is in the wrong clearly

Completely disagree.

[treetops]

You become a trader when you sell on a vehicle (regardless of whether you make a profit) and the vehicle does not show your name and address on the V5.

You can only take so many PX's you don't want before anyone waves that flag...

So go to an auction buy a car, tart it up and punt it = trader.


Sell cans of Pepsi on a street corner and you are a retailer - same thing.


Someone will be able to correct me but if you sell on a car thats unroadworthy for whatever reason you could find yourself exposed in court without liability insurances etc in place.

You may be lucky, you may not.

Not to mention the taxman who's scouring ebay at the moment - some people will be getting a knock soon enough the country needs the cash...

[Chainguy]

The cars always show my address on the V5. Even if I only own them a month.

[treetops]

Chainguy said:

The cars always show my address on the V5. Even if I only own them a month.

You only need worry about your own insurance and liabilities and of course the taxman.

If you have those covered then you'll be fine.

Problem is when (not if) the bubble bursts and you haven't covered off the above you could be ruined.

I take it nobody bats an eyelid that you've only owned the car a month - that would be viewed as rather unusual in court - however it all depends how many cars you turnover...each year?

Hopefully your not one of those types that writes:

"too big for the wife" / "emigrating" / "company car forces sale" etc....

[king arthur]

Chainguy said:

Can anyone clued in tell me what actually makes you a trader? Just when I read the part about 'trader working from his driveway' etc, and legal rights at this end of the market, the sub £1k stuff.

Technically it's probably up to the Inland Revenue to decide. In practice, selling a number of cars with the intention of making a profit should be enough.

[Chainguy]

No, I'm not the sort to write that. My adverts are usually very brief indeed, although it's rare I even write one. They are almost always sold to friends of friends who are looking for something cheap for a years running and who know I'd never pass on rubbish.

Taxwise, my wife is an IFA, and any monies earned are dealt with by her, and are declared the same as monies I earn from doing private flying work. I've nothing to hide from anyone. Not everyone in the UK is out to scam the taxman or rob the next guy, although I admit it can seem that way sometimes.

I enjoy cars, I love being around them and I love getting them running right, and I've worked really hard to afford my 20x20 garage and my tools to allow me to do it.

Thats why I occasionally get involved in a buy/runforabit/sell scenario, money is by far a secondary issue. In fact, if I was to tot up my time on fixing them and then put an hourly rate next to it, chances are I'd come out as a loss.

It is a theraputic thing for me though to get my hands dirty, to do some big boys meccanno. It relaxes me. When I'm out tinkering away in my garage I'm in my own wee world for a bit.

[treetops]

It wasn't meant as a slight on you - just more generally what's going on with ebay etc...

If you're covered off then you're fine.

Its just that when something goes t*ts up with whomever - the happy hobby could then become a major headache for you.

Its even easier for the powers that be to see all the cars reg'd in your name and start asking you the hard questions.

In for a penny, in for a pound as they say.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Chainguy said:

Can anyone clued in tell me what actually makes you a trader?

I have been asked to source cars for friends at this price point, due to being a mechanic 20 odd years ago. I've also bought stuff from the classifieds before that has been undervalued and just needed a usually labour costly, but parts cheap, fix, and drove it for a few weeks then sold it on.

• If you're taking a margin on the cars "sourced for friends" you are a trader.
• If you're just doing the looking as a favour and the friend buys the car, you're not a trader.
• If you're buying cars, fixing them up and selling, you're a trader.
• If you're buying cars, fixing them up, using them and then selling you're not a trader.
• The more often you do it the more likely you are to be a trader.
• Especially if you have several cars on the go at once.
• If you are a trader for SOGA purposes you are liable for income tax on any money you make.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Chainguy said:

Taxwise, any monies earned are declared the same as monies I earn from doing private flying work.

Then you are definitely a trader and the cars you sell have SOGA protection for the buyer.

[Chainguy]

Ozzie, Treetops, cheers

Good to know where I stand on it then.

[R500POP]

This pisses me off.

People want main dealer backup, but only want to pay pocket money for the cars, if you want dealer facilities & backup, then buy from a dealer.