Will cars ever stop getting bigger and heavier?!

[crocodile tears]

seems like they bulked over the past decade or so to fit all this saftey stuff and electronical crap.. Now they are realising how lardy cars have been

[Oldandslow]

Each model seems to get larger with each new incarnation and then new entry level models are created to fill the bottom niche. I suppose marketing revolves around being bigger and better than the last one.

e.g.
3 series - 1 series BMW,
VW Polo - VW Up(Lupo, Fox)
Ford Fiesta - Ford Ka

[simoid]

E30 M3 to 1M

About the Golfs/Polos, they are lighter, but are they shorter and narrower?

[Superhoop]

To the OP... Look up Mazda and Skyactive.

Mazda are talking about losing at least 100 Kg's for each new model replacement

Even before their new range arrives, take a look at the current Mazda2, which is 100 Kg's lighter than the old shoe shaped model and nearly 200 Kg's lighter than a Peugeot 207!!

[Pints]

Urban Sports said:

Like for like models? I find that surprising with the Golf.

Yes. I compared 3dr tdi (2.0 Golf; 1.2 Polo) for each.
Looking at them next to each other, it's quite believable.

[williamp]

the Jaguar XJ was all alumnum, saving approx 40% of body in white weight.

With their green lim concept car, the additional weight of the electrc motor and batteries has been offset by lightweighting, so the ndustry is lookng at this

[XJSJohn]

the 370Z is smaller and lighter than the previous 350Z

and it has more power

[blueg33]

safety improvements seem to have levelled off and materials are getting better. That coupled with the drive for economy means that IMO cars will keep getting lighter, but not necessarily smaller.

[crofty1984]

Yes, there is a trend in current and future vehicle design for lighter vehicles that give good MPG and CO2 stats.

[Megaflow]

Oldandslow said:

Each model seems to get larger with each new incarnation and then new entry level models are created to fill the bottom niche. I suppose marketing revolves around being bigger and better than the last one.

e.g.
3 series - 1 series BMW,
VW Polo - VW Up(Lupo, Fox)
Ford Fiesta - Ford Ka

Glad I' not the only one that has noticed this. Manufacturers keep making bigger and heavier cars because that is apparently what the public want. But at the same time introducing smaller models at the bottom of the range because that's what people want?!?!

[VR6 Turbo]

VR

[kambites]

If you looked at how the average weight of cars bought in the UK has changed over the last 50 years, I wonder what you'd see.

[blueg33]

Megaflow said:

Glad I' not the only one that has noticed this. Manufacturers keep making bigger and heavier cars because that is apparently what the public want. But at the same time introducing smaller models at the bottom of the range because that's what people want?!?!

The manufacturers want to differentiate a new model from the previous one so that people feel the need to buy a new car, one way is to give the car more space which can make it bigger.

[DanDC5]

Isn't it Mazda who are now operating the 'gram strategy' where every part is a gram less than the previous one (obviously the bigger the part the more weight is being lost) as there form of improving fuel consumption, also instead of investing stupid amounts of money in hybrid systems they're working on the current petrol and diesel engines efficiency to improve emissions and consumption even further. IMO that's the best solution any manufacturer has at the moment, until hydrogen becomes more widely available anyway.

[StevieB]

Urban Sports said:

Pints said:

Have just checked this and it would appear I was correct.

Golf
mk6: 1299kg
mk5: 1451kg

Polo
mk5: 1057kg
mk4: 1095kg

Like for like models? I find that surprising with the Golf.

Hmm, I think you are wrong about the GOlf, take the GTI. These are the "as weighed figures," taken by Autocar. I have both road tests, sadly..

Mk5- 1411,
Mk6- 1420 (both 3 door models)

As for the XJ, did you know that the one tested and weighted by Autocar was 1960kgs. Not much better than a 7 series.

My theory is this. Although the base models may be getting slightly lighter, all the optional extra crap is getting more comprehensive so by the time your typical 320d sport on optional wheels with gismos is weighed, it is heavier than the older less well spec'd car. I believe the 911, as tested by Autocar next week will end up heavier than the old model they tested, which was 1420 KGs...lets see if Im right!!

However, Madza are thankfully getting their models lighter. Lets hope others follow....

Edited by StevieB on Thursday 1st March 17:07

Edited by StevieB on Thursday 1st March 17:08

[b0rk]

Pints said:

Yes. I compared 3dr tdi (2.0 Golf; 1.2 Polo) for each.
Looking at them next to each other, it's quite believable.

Ummm the mk5 polo is larger than a mk4... so not sure how it can look lighter. In actual fact the car is lighter but not smaller.
The same is true for mk6 golf vs mk5 the current car is larger (slightly) than the previous.

The weight reductions will IHMO be down to the use of high strength steel to reduce overall steel thickness and engine development work.

[martin84]

Bigwigs and Governments keep pressuring car makers to make cars more economical and eco-friendly - which is expensive. Customers want cars made so well they never go wrong - which is expensive. Customers want lovely comfortable large fast cars which do 150mpg - which is expensive. Customers also want all of this to be cheap - well you get the idea.

Something has to give eventually.

[crocodile tears]

kambites said:

If you looked at how the average weight of cars bought in the UK has changed over the last 50 years, I wonder what you'd see.

best I could find:



:/

[Fastdruid]

Superhoop said:

To the OP... Look up Mazda and Skyactive.

Skyactiv not Skyactive but that's some impressive technology they have going, the bit I rather like though is this bit of have your cake and eat it:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/104992/mazda-skyactive-technology-driven/ said:

SKYACTIV-G is what Mazda’s next generation petrol engines are called, and just like the diesel versions, is a product of breakthrough technology. This is a highly-efficient direct injection 2.0-litre engine with an extremely high compression ratio (14.0:1), that develops 15 percent more low- and mid-range torque than the Mazda’s current 2.0-litre petrol powertrain. Not only that; remarkably, fuel consumption falls 15 percent to around the same rate the current diesel engine uses.

So more power than current petrol *and* the same mpg as their current diesel (and I'd assume CO2 levels would reflect that). When can I get one?

Anyway, back on topic. I'm shocked at current car weights. Hell I was shocked the other day when I opened the bonnet on the MPS the other day, the weight of it in comparison to the RX-8 is incredible. I can't see it keeping going up though, the way the focus is on reducing emissions and increasing mpg means manufacturers will *have* to reduce weight, there is only so much can be done with stop/start and other bodges to get 'round' the tests.

Although saying about the RX-8, having looked quite a bit at the mechanicals its a curious mix of lightweight and heavy cost cutting items. Makes you wonder just how much better it could have been still if it was say 200kg lighter.

[vit4]

I'm sure I recall that the top-spec diesel Astra is something like 1700kg? Resulting in a gross weight of over 2 tonnes. Essentially double the weight of my Astra