Jag XKR and BMW 840Ci
Discussion
Jaguar XKR- get an iron linered engine with the tensioner upgrade and the engine is as bulletproof as an AJ16.
The Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
The Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
I have a massive weak spot for 840ci...Looking in this thread isn't a good idea and will see now spend 3 hours in the classifieds again trying to convince myself not to buy one.
My vote goes for the 8 series. As has been said - pop up headlights and frameless windows, what else do you need to know!?!
My vote goes for the 8 series. As has been said - pop up headlights and frameless windows, what else do you need to know!?!
E31Shrew said:
No need for the 850Ci really and they are a little older [but cheaper]. No performance improvements, but a Csi will set you back a minimum of £15k if you can find one, but it gives you an extra 100bhp , up from 286 to 380!
840 Sport all the way. Now on my 2nd and it's a peach! Go to www.clube31.com for any advice as there's a wealth of knowledge to be gleaned. As the OP said go for a 97, 98 or if you can find one a 99.
Few little foibles as in any car that's over 10 year sold. Pixels on the trip computer can be missing [ fixable ] but all in all a pretty robust vehicle.
Drove to Spain and back in ours March this year. Didn't miss a beat and averaged 26mpg.
Superfluous picture of mine!
In my sad old eyes the design still looks fresh, as they weren't replaced with a newer model immediately. When they did, if you can call it a replacement, they released the 6 series....
Stunning !840 Sport all the way. Now on my 2nd and it's a peach! Go to www.clube31.com for any advice as there's a wealth of knowledge to be gleaned. As the OP said go for a 97, 98 or if you can find one a 99.
Few little foibles as in any car that's over 10 year sold. Pixels on the trip computer can be missing [ fixable ] but all in all a pretty robust vehicle.
Drove to Spain and back in ours March this year. Didn't miss a beat and averaged 26mpg.
Superfluous picture of mine!
In my sad old eyes the design still looks fresh, as they weren't replaced with a newer model immediately. When they did, if you can call it a replacement, they released the 6 series....
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 07:23
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 07:25
XKR definitely. Would also recommend highly the S type R if you can live with the looks. I do like the BM; it's one of the few BMWs that floats my boat, but the Jag is just timeless.
Edited due to clumsy big fingers hitting J instead of K. Not that the XJR is an inferior product! In many ways, it's the better car.
Edited due to clumsy big fingers hitting J instead of K. Not that the XJR is an inferior product! In many ways, it's the better car.
Edited by alfa pint on Wednesday 30th May 21:53
This thread seems to suggest that actually, the E31 8 Series is not the ruinous proposition I had long believed they would be! I have long stayed away from them, under the impression they were filled with bespoke parts (though common running gear).
I would love one, I may even be wild and look into one! I sometimes see a silver 840 on the way to work some days and it is real head turner.
I would love one, I may even be wild and look into one! I sometimes see a silver 840 on the way to work some days and it is real head turner.
XKR everytime.
I've seen a few comments about the reliability of the Jags, must say that does not agree with my experience of the jags I've had over the last 20 years with 3 XJRs in the last 8 or so years. Had very few electrical issues especially on the mid 90s+ models, and the engine on the early 4.0 supercharges should be bullet proof by now, either they will have been changed or upgraded. I read one particularly scathing review of the electrical issues on someone's XKR where they said they'd changed out 10 head units and several cd changers and still couldn't get it to read CDs. Well after the first 1 or 2 I think I'd have been looking for the issues somewhere else!
Oh and parts... bloody dirt cheap in my experience... if you avoid the stealers! Plenty of internet based specialists selling everything you can think of and plentiful spares in breakers.
As to the BMW, my father had an 840 a few years ago. He kept it for 6 months or so. He got shot after he'd had to change the cats, the batteries and the ECUs all in the space of the first 5 months of ownership. Each time it was costing £££000's to buy the bits. He got shot before it cost him another couple of grand when the next thing failed. As he said at the time, "bloody astonishing car to drive, not a cheap car to run, it's got 2 of everything a normal car has".
Oh, go and have a look at the 'diary of a barge, 750il' thread, it appears the guy can't currently work out how the get the engine to fire at the moment and is thinking of dumping it on ebay as spares. Worth bearing in mind if you're thinking about big engined BMWs.
I've seen a few comments about the reliability of the Jags, must say that does not agree with my experience of the jags I've had over the last 20 years with 3 XJRs in the last 8 or so years. Had very few electrical issues especially on the mid 90s+ models, and the engine on the early 4.0 supercharges should be bullet proof by now, either they will have been changed or upgraded. I read one particularly scathing review of the electrical issues on someone's XKR where they said they'd changed out 10 head units and several cd changers and still couldn't get it to read CDs. Well after the first 1 or 2 I think I'd have been looking for the issues somewhere else!
Oh and parts... bloody dirt cheap in my experience... if you avoid the stealers! Plenty of internet based specialists selling everything you can think of and plentiful spares in breakers.
As to the BMW, my father had an 840 a few years ago. He kept it for 6 months or so. He got shot after he'd had to change the cats, the batteries and the ECUs all in the space of the first 5 months of ownership. Each time it was costing £££000's to buy the bits. He got shot before it cost him another couple of grand when the next thing failed. As he said at the time, "bloody astonishing car to drive, not a cheap car to run, it's got 2 of everything a normal car has".
Oh, go and have a look at the 'diary of a barge, 750il' thread, it appears the guy can't currently work out how the get the engine to fire at the moment and is thinking of dumping it on ebay as spares. Worth bearing in mind if you're thinking about big engined BMWs.
Edited by Piersman2 on Wednesday 30th May 21:59
Baryonyx said:
This thread seems to suggest that actually, the E31 8 Series is not the ruinous proposition I had long believed they would be! I have long stayed away from them, under the impression they were filled with bespoke parts (though common running gear).
I would love one, I may even be wild and look into one! I sometimes see a silver 840 on the way to work some days and it is real head turner.
I've been fortunate to have owned a couple of 840s , a Jag XK and Merc SL600. The Jaguar , albeit not the XKR, I purchased new in 1996 just as they were released. Like a prat I also paid a 5K premium over list to get it on the day of launch....Never again. I did 80000 miles in 18 months and to be honest had very few problems. The wheels were changed twice, headlights condensate badly but all in all it was a pleasure to own. However as soon as the new shape was released, in my eyes it looked over arched and dated.I would love one, I may even be wild and look into one! I sometimes see a silver 840 on the way to work some days and it is real head turner.
The SL600 [R129] was a superb motor, a little older [1994] but again I felt it looked a tad obsolete, as soon as the new one arrived.
Bit of light reading for you!
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f88/
http://www.clube31.com/
http://www.8coupe.com
Fifth gear review! But it is the 850csi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rya7s6yTkM
This site is run by a very knowledgeable and helpful guy...
http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E31/Buying_Guide/BMW_E31_...
I had an ex demo T plate 840 Sport in 1999 and again covered 80000 miles in 18 months. Nothing in that time went wrong. It wasn't the quickest kid on the block but as you can imagine, the majority of my mileage was on the motorways, so I wasn't concerned at all with 0-60 times and twisty lanes.
I guess it all boils down as to how the car will be used. The 840 can carry a couple of adults in the back, although you will need to put seats well forward. It still looks fresh, as stated before in a previous post [ in my eyes anyway] I know it was never the sales success that BMW wanted, due in the main to the early 90s fuel crisis and the initial reviews of the V12 were a smidge scathing. Theres a great deal of info on the site I mentioned earlier, run by real enthusiasts, who have the build data and whereabouts of pretty well every 8 series manufactured.
Perhaps a late CL500 might be another option?
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 22:06
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 22:07
Marquis Rex said:
Jaguar XKR- get an iron linered engine with the tensioner upgrade and the engine is as bulletproof as an AJ16.
The Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
Better looking? The XKR looks positively dated these days it hasn't aged well at all it actually looks like some America churned out in the 90sThe Jag is lighter, much faster, better looking, better handling and has alot more style.
I haven't had any electrical issues with the supercharged Jag I own.
The BMW is underpowered leviathan with that low Bhp/litre 4.4 V8. Contrary to popular opinion the BMW has electrical gremlins too. The worst thing about the 8 series is from the perspective of an E24 BMW M635CSi owner- what a nasty follow up to a legend, overweight, ugly , thirsty and generally an unloved white elephant.
A lot more style? Lacks pop up headlights, and see above point, it hasn't aged well at all, it looks like one of those cars that was expensive new but you can pick up for very little these days, where as the 840 looks like they still cost a lot, the Jag also lacks the pillerlessness and the most epic rear window mechanism ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP29mQGFMy8 The rear end of an 8 has more road presence than the whole Jag, it looks like a pannini with too much filling in it.
I don't find it underpowered, was enough to just be quicker than my Legnum VR4
Electrical gremlins, a few perhaps the biggest is the pixels on the dash die but can be fixed, and in true BMW fashion the boot lid can chafe the wiring causing all manners of weird lights, but known on a lot of BMWs.
Overweight, doesn't weigh much more than XK.
Ugly? As opposed to the Pannini with too much stuffing? Or the badly packed kebab? Your argument is null and void because the 8 has pop up headlights.
Unloved elephant? By whom? You? Can't say I know many people who dislike the 8 series
M635ci to 8 series....6 series to 8 series...yes perfect comparison go you, an M car vs a non M car, a sports car vs a grand tourer.
I have countered your sweeping statements with more sweeping statements, even if we didn't have an 8, I would still say the same.
8 series aren't ruinous to run at all in the grand scheme of things
Few things to check as they are getting on a bit now
Weeping headgaskets and suspension components, personally if it was me I would avoid any self leveling suspension ones, those I admit can be expensive when they go wrong.
Don't rush into it, find a really nice one with FSH that has been loved and cared for and you wont go far wrong, they truly are a cracking car, and unlike the Jag will only start appreciating in value, prices have been rising slowly on these and they will become a collectors car at some point
correct me if i'm wrong, but the 8 series wasn't meant as a replacement for the 6 series (hence it's the 8 series, not 6 series)?? for starters, part of the reason it's so heavy is that it's based on the 7 series, and not a 5 series.
it'd be a tough call for me, i've always had a soft spot for both cars; both are looking a bit dated now. 8 series if you want that extra rarity feature, XKR if you want a jaaaaag. both are good cars in their own right.
drive both and see what you think they aren't meant as out and out sports cars like some seem to suggest, more GT cars
it'd be a tough call for me, i've always had a soft spot for both cars; both are looking a bit dated now. 8 series if you want that extra rarity feature, XKR if you want a jaaaaag. both are good cars in their own right.
drive both and see what you think
they aren't meant as out and out sports cars like some seem to suggest, more GT carsComing from an anti BMW bias I have to say the 8 series is better looking than the XKR, if you have it in a decent dark colour (black or deep blue). The Jag looks dated now (and American as said).
Cosmetics aside I have been advised by a top Jag specialist that the XJR is far better than the XKR. The K is prone to more rust in hidden places not seen on a regular car viewing.
One thing which would swing owning a Jaguar for me is the number of highly regarded specialists locally. They will do a far better job than any main dealer for a fraction of the cost. Both the BMW and Jag will go wrong at some point, but for me using a Jag indie it would be rather cheap in comparison.
So for the above I'd opt for an XJR instead.
Cosmetics aside I have been advised by a top Jag specialist that the XJR is far better than the XKR. The K is prone to more rust in hidden places not seen on a regular car viewing.
One thing which would swing owning a Jaguar for me is the number of highly regarded specialists locally. They will do a far better job than any main dealer for a fraction of the cost. Both the BMW and Jag will go wrong at some point, but for me using a Jag indie it would be rather cheap in comparison.
So for the above I'd opt for an XJR instead.
E31Shrew said:
I've been fortunate to have owned a couple of 840s , a Jag XK and Merc SL600. The Jaguar , albeit not the XKR, I purchased new in 1996 just as they were released. Like a prat I also paid a 5K premium over list to get it on the day of launch....Never again. I did 80000 miles in 18 months and to be honest had very few problems. The wheels were changed twice, headlights condensate badly but all in all it was a pleasure to own. However as soon as the new shape was released, in my eyes it looked over arched and dated.
The SL600 [R129] was a superb motor, a little older [1994] but again I felt it looked a tad obsolete, as soon as the new one arrived.
Bit of light reading for you!
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f88/
http://www.clube31.com/
http://www.8coupe.com
Fifth gear review! But it is the 850csi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rya7s6yTkM
This site is run by a very knowledgeable and helpful guy...
http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E31/Buying_Guide/BMW_E31_...
I had an ex demo T plate 840 Sport in 1999 and again covered 80000 miles in 18 months. Nothing in that time went wrong. It wasn't the quickest kid on the block but as you can imagine, the majority of my mileage was on the motorways, so I wasn't concerned at all with 0-60 times and twisty lanes.
I guess it all boils down as to how the car will be used. The 840 can carry a couple of adults in the back, although you will need to put seats well forward. It still looks fresh, as stated before in a previous post [ in my eyes anyway] I know it was never the sales success that BMW wanted, due in the main to the early 90s fuel crisis and the initial reviews of the V12 were a smidge scathing. Theres a great deal of info on the site I mentioned earlier, run by real enthusiasts, who have the build data and whereabouts of pretty well every 8 series manufactured.
Perhaps a late CL500 might be another option?
That YouTube video is not fifth gear, I believe it was a program called Classic Car Club. The SL600 [R129] was a superb motor, a little older [1994] but again I felt it looked a tad obsolete, as soon as the new one arrived.
Bit of light reading for you!
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f88/
http://www.clube31.com/
http://www.8coupe.com
Fifth gear review! But it is the 850csi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rya7s6yTkM
This site is run by a very knowledgeable and helpful guy...
http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E31/Buying_Guide/BMW_E31_...
I had an ex demo T plate 840 Sport in 1999 and again covered 80000 miles in 18 months. Nothing in that time went wrong. It wasn't the quickest kid on the block but as you can imagine, the majority of my mileage was on the motorways, so I wasn't concerned at all with 0-60 times and twisty lanes.
I guess it all boils down as to how the car will be used. The 840 can carry a couple of adults in the back, although you will need to put seats well forward. It still looks fresh, as stated before in a previous post [ in my eyes anyway] I know it was never the sales success that BMW wanted, due in the main to the early 90s fuel crisis and the initial reviews of the V12 were a smidge scathing. Theres a great deal of info on the site I mentioned earlier, run by real enthusiasts, who have the build data and whereabouts of pretty well every 8 series manufactured.
Perhaps a late CL500 might be another option?
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 22:06
Edited by E31Shrew on Wednesday 30th May 22:07
I must say that I was never a big fan of the 8 series although in some of the pics posted by owners here they do look quite nice and I'd happily own one.
Personally I'd go Jag but then I do own an XKR. I think the styling of the 2 cars is very different and has naturally polarised opinion. I wouldn't say that in a XK you don't get noticed. Mine still gets complimentary comments from various passers by.
Parts for a jag needn't be expensive (just look at British car parts for example). The XK is the more expensive of the "R"'s second hand. If you are looking for a performance bargain then the XJ or S type will get you a newer car for your money. You would hope that any of the Nikasil linered 4L's will either be OK or have been swapped by now and that they will have been upgraded to the later timing tensioners.
How come no Jag owners have posted any pics! My excuse is that I haven't got around to taking any yet.
Personally I'd go Jag but then I do own an XKR. I think the styling of the 2 cars is very different and has naturally polarised opinion. I wouldn't say that in a XK you don't get noticed. Mine still gets complimentary comments from various passers by.
Parts for a jag needn't be expensive (just look at British car parts for example). The XK is the more expensive of the "R"'s second hand. If you are looking for a performance bargain then the XJ or S type will get you a newer car for your money. You would hope that any of the Nikasil linered 4L's will either be OK or have been swapped by now and that they will have been upgraded to the later timing tensioners.
How come no Jag owners have posted any pics! My excuse is that I haven't got around to taking any yet.
XKR for me. I personally LOVE the styling. There's been a gunmetal XKR near me on 20 inch Detroits for about three years now and I almost always pause to drink in the view as I pass. I found myself doing the same to another one to and from he way to work yesterday. They just do it for me.
And then there's the performance - you get 400bhp as opposed to 300bhp. Surely a fairer comparison would be 840 vs n/a XK or 850 vs XKR?
Finally, you have to ask yourself which one would Austin Powers drive?
And then there's the performance - you get 400bhp as opposed to 300bhp. Surely a fairer comparison would be 840 vs n/a XK or 850 vs XKR?
Finally, you have to ask yourself which one would Austin Powers drive?
Another vote for the 8 series.
Ours has been fairly expensive of late, 2x cats, ABS module full of water and as a result needed a new one and the TC/ABS didn't work.
Needed a new ECU too.
But, it's still a peach and a pleasure to drive, certainly not quick by any means but that noise
Ours is a '99 T plate, one of the last to be made, has been owned since new, is worth probably buttons but I'm hoping it's had it's hissy fit, been fixed, and will continue to run for a long time yet.
It's only on 55,000 miles!
As I understand it, it was very technologically advanced for it's age in terms of electrics etc. It has needed a new OBC due to pixel problems as well as a new headunit in the 13 years we've had it. Other than that, it's not been that bad, I'm probably painting it in a bad light but what do you expect from a car that cost £70k 13 years ago and has lived outside.
The electric rear blind has never failed!
I wouldn't want to run it as my daily driver, as the OBC is showing 12mpg, but then again it does get driven properly when it does go out and it's enjoyed by a few of us!
Ours has been fairly expensive of late, 2x cats, ABS module full of water and as a result needed a new one and the TC/ABS didn't work.
Needed a new ECU too.
But, it's still a peach and a pleasure to drive, certainly not quick by any means but that noise
Ours is a '99 T plate, one of the last to be made, has been owned since new, is worth probably buttons but I'm hoping it's had it's hissy fit, been fixed, and will continue to run for a long time yet.
It's only on 55,000 miles!
As I understand it, it was very technologically advanced for it's age in terms of electrics etc. It has needed a new OBC due to pixel problems as well as a new headunit in the 13 years we've had it. Other than that, it's not been that bad, I'm probably painting it in a bad light but what do you expect from a car that cost £70k 13 years ago and has lived outside.
The electric rear blind has never failed!
I wouldn't want to run it as my daily driver, as the OBC is showing 12mpg, but then again it does get driven properly when it does go out and it's enjoyed by a few of us!
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