New mot failure items from march 20th
Discussion
Negative Creep said:
So if the steering lock doesn't work that's an MOT fail?
There are a number of things on the list that have nothing to do with safety or with being roadworthy but your example is the most obvious. I mean come on, who gives a toss whether my steering lock works? What has that to do with safety (unless it locks while I'm driving but as the tester won't drive it they won't find that out)? stemll said:
Negative Creep said:
So if the steering lock doesn't work that's an MOT fail?
There are a number of things on the list that have nothing to do with safety or with being roadworthy but your example is the most obvious. I mean come on, who gives a toss whether my steering lock works? What has that to do with safety (unless it locks while I'm driving but as the tester won't drive it they won't find that out)? Manicminer said:
hora said:
Apart from special builds etc- if a steering lock doesn't work then you can pretty much guess the rest of the car will have issues.
Balls, I've owned a few "older" cars that didn't have working steering locks. Why on earth is this in the MOT?
hora said:
Don't flame me. I don't make the rules but I've never had a car with one that wasn't functional. I have had cars fail on a ABS light though.
No, it was your assertions that the car must have other faults. Lots of old cars were stolen by breaking the steering lock.ABS light I can understand, it's a safety feature. Traction control light though? ESP I suppose again a safety feature.
I just hope they don't start failing cars for having out of date airbags
Instead of adding all these items to the MOT test would it not be easier and more effective to just bang ignorant mongs who assume and MOT is the same as a service and who only ever touch tyres, brakes and other items when their car fails and who even then use the cheapest possible solution?
Cars don't need ABS, I managed 10's of 1000's of miles in non ABS equipped cars and so did lots of other people, without crashing and dying. With decent new tyres and well maintained brakes there should be even less need for them.
But no lets legislate to save the stupid from themselves instead of just shooting them or banning them from the roads.
Cars don't need ABS, I managed 10's of 1000's of miles in non ABS equipped cars and so did lots of other people, without crashing and dying. With decent new tyres and well maintained brakes there should be even less need for them.
But no lets legislate to save the stupid from themselves instead of just shooting them or banning them from the roads.
Negative Creep said:
So if the steering lock doesn't work that's an MOT fail?
I think the VOSA guidelines refer specifically to electronic steering locks - the kind fitted to modern cars with keyless entry.On my E90 3-series a few years ago, the "steering lock malfunction" warning lamp would occasionally come on when I started the car up. No discernable impact apart from an occasional delay in the steering lock releasing on start up. Was cured by a software reflash. Guess that would be an MOT fail if it happened again.
I assume the logic of testing this is to minimise the (very small) risk of the electronic locking mechanism going crazy and locking up while the car was being driven.
chrisw666 said:
Instead of adding all these items to the MOT test would it not be easier and more effective to just bang ignorant mongs who assume and MOT is the same as a service and who only ever touch tyres, brakes and other items when their car fails and who even then use the cheapest possible solution?
Cars don't need ABS, I managed 10's of 1000's of miles in non ABS equipped cars and so did lots of other people, without crashing and dying. With decent new tyres and well maintained brakes there should be even less need for them.
But no lets legislate to save the stupid from themselves instead of just shooting them or banning them from the roads.
Not everyone is an expert driver. Lots of people did crash and die in the past because safety features we have now weren't available. Cars don't need ABS, I managed 10's of 1000's of miles in non ABS equipped cars and so did lots of other people, without crashing and dying. With decent new tyres and well maintained brakes there should be even less need for them.
But no lets legislate to save the stupid from themselves instead of just shooting them or banning them from the roads.
chrisw666 said:
Instead of adding all these items to the MOT test would it not be easier and more effective to just ban ignorant mongs who assume and MOT is the same as a service and who only ever touch tyres, brakes and other items when their car fails and who even then use the cheapest possible solution?
Indirectly, the new rules might achieve that aim, if the cost of fixing dodgy ABS/airbag/TPM systems is enough to encourage them to sell their car and take the bus instead.excel monkey said:
I think the VOSA guidelines refer specifically to electronic steering locks - the kind fitted to modern cars with keyless entry.
On my E90 3-series a few years ago, the "steering lock malfunction" warning lamp would occasionally come on when I started the car up. No discernable impact apart from an occasional delay in the steering lock releasing on start up. Was cured by a software reflash. Guess that would be an MOT fail if it happened again.
I assume the logic of testing this is to minimise the (very small) risk of the electronic locking mechanism going crazy and locking up while the car was being driven.
Nope, it applies to all steering locks. If there is doubt the car ever had one the tester is supposed to let it pass. There is a get out though, reading the notes it saysOn my E90 3-series a few years ago, the "steering lock malfunction" warning lamp would occasionally come on when I started the car up. No discernable impact apart from an occasional delay in the steering lock releasing on start up. Was cured by a software reflash. Guess that would be an MOT fail if it happened again.
I assume the logic of testing this is to minimise the (very small) risk of the electronic locking mechanism going crazy and locking up while the car was being driven.
"It is acceptable for a steering lock to be removed if it has been replaced with another immobilisation device."
Still asks the question - why is an anti-theft device part of the MOT?
Manicminer said:
Not everyone is an expert driver. Lots of people did crash and die in the past because safety features we have now weren't available.
When safety features start making people less likely to die, people who aren't intelligent enough to drive do it more and often with impunity. I'm not an expert driver, but I check my vehicle on a regular basis and that is nothing to do with skill or mechanical ability just common sense, because if I'm going to put myself in a metal box attached to the road by four small blocks of rubber I want to be sure I'll stay there. DanielJames said:
Oh s
t, that's a lot of bulbs I'm going to have to remove!
You seem to have missed the point mentioned earlier that all warning lights must come on & then go out & remain out.t, that's a lot of bulbs I'm going to have to remove!An MOT tested doesn't just look to see that they are off, they stop the engine, turn on the ignition & check that all come on & then go out, so removing the bulb is no good to you.
chrisw666 said:
When safety features start making people less likely to die, people who aren't intelligent enough to drive do it more and often with impunity. I'm not an expert driver, but I check my vehicle on a regular basis and that is nothing to do with skill or mechanical ability just common sense, because if I'm going to put myself in a metal box attached to the road by four small blocks of rubber I want to be sure I'll stay there.
I beg to differ, when a drunk driver piles into you head on in an 80s Escort or Astra chances are it might sting a bit. In a modern car you have a higher chance of wearing an airbag for a few milliseconds and walking away (not always).Same goes for ABS, that doddery old codger behind you or young buck with his eye down his passengers top is more likely to stop before smacking you up the arse when they're caught by surprise on wet road.
People still find new and interesting ways to use cars to kill themselves but I'd rather have the idiots driving around with ABS than not.
Manicminer said:
excel monkey said:
I think the VOSA guidelines refer specifically to electronic steering locks - the kind fitted to modern cars with keyless entry.
On my E90 3-series a few years ago, the "steering lock malfunction" warning lamp would occasionally come on when I started the car up. No discernable impact apart from an occasional delay in the steering lock releasing on start up. Was cured by a software reflash. Guess that would be an MOT fail if it happened again.
I assume the logic of testing this is to minimise the (very small) risk of the electronic locking mechanism going crazy and locking up while the car was being driven.
Nope, it applies to all steering locks. If there is doubt the car ever had one the tester is supposed to let it pass. There is a get out though, reading the notes it saysOn my E90 3-series a few years ago, the "steering lock malfunction" warning lamp would occasionally come on when I started the car up. No discernable impact apart from an occasional delay in the steering lock releasing on start up. Was cured by a software reflash. Guess that would be an MOT fail if it happened again.
I assume the logic of testing this is to minimise the (very small) risk of the electronic locking mechanism going crazy and locking up while the car was being driven.
"It is acceptable for a steering lock to be removed if it has been replaced with another immobilisation device."
Still asks the question - why is an anti-theft device part of the MOT?
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