RE: Group Lotus PLC may be wound up
Discussion
Agem said:
There are few words that can sum up my total delight at this LONG over due news. I feel like that woman off the "Teminator" when she kills Schwarzengger in the power press at the end of the film.....not that Lotus EVER built anything that well built or fit for purpose!!!!!
The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
I'm surprised I haven't heard of this before, what with how old that platform now is. What is the exact problem?The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
EDIT: Just googled it - Rear toe link failure.
Edited by mwstewart on Monday 18th March 11:28
Agem said:
There are few words that can sum up my total delight at this LONG over due news. I feel like that woman off the "Teminator" when she kills Schwarzengger in the power press at the end of the film.....not that Lotus EVER built anything that well built or fit for purpose!!!!!
The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
Not mawkish.The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
I had initially removed the two posts as while I am happy to discuss issues that affect any car on PH, the morbid way in which the OP has posted and the suggestion of death and injury was one-sided to say the least. IN addition it was taking the thread off topic.
Keep this thread on topic please, let's get back to the matters in hand and perhaps start a new thread relating to the other matter if it's deemed necessary.
Keep this thread on topic please, let's get back to the matters in hand and perhaps start a new thread relating to the other matter if it's deemed necessary.
I would'nt jump to conclusions here.
Like many, I take no delight at Lotus's misfortunes and wish the chaps at Hethel well.
I really hope they can not only survive, but prosper.
Restructuring could be a very good thing however.
Lotus remains, potentially, an excellent investment. They have a terrific brand supported with a winning F1 team - this alone is worth many millions. They also have manufacturing capability, some useful cars and car platforms, and type approval in key markets like the US.
I private equity shop could definitely be interested in a turn around here. I see that Italian PE shop Investindustrial, having made a fortune in buying, sorting out and then selling on Ducati, are doing the same with Aston Martin. A similar thing could happen with Lotus maybe...
Like many, I take no delight at Lotus's misfortunes and wish the chaps at Hethel well.
I really hope they can not only survive, but prosper.
Restructuring could be a very good thing however.
Lotus remains, potentially, an excellent investment. They have a terrific brand supported with a winning F1 team - this alone is worth many millions. They also have manufacturing capability, some useful cars and car platforms, and type approval in key markets like the US.
I private equity shop could definitely be interested in a turn around here. I see that Italian PE shop Investindustrial, having made a fortune in buying, sorting out and then selling on Ducati, are doing the same with Aston Martin. A similar thing could happen with Lotus maybe...
As I understand things:
IF this is what is happening here, applying for winding up if the debt is genuinely in dispute is an abuse of process and will be kicked out. If the debt is uncontested and hasn't been paid, that is when you apply for winding up.
People often threaten winding up, knowing it is an abuse, for the exact reason that has happened here - it is basically SHOUTING VERY LOUD so that your debt has a good chance of being looked at sharpish!
I for one hope Lotus can ride this out and maintain some kind of (admittedly not much) confidence in its future.
IF this is what is happening here, applying for winding up if the debt is genuinely in dispute is an abuse of process and will be kicked out. If the debt is uncontested and hasn't been paid, that is when you apply for winding up.
People often threaten winding up, knowing it is an abuse, for the exact reason that has happened here - it is basically SHOUTING VERY LOUD so that your debt has a good chance of being looked at sharpish!
I for one hope Lotus can ride this out and maintain some kind of (admittedly not much) confidence in its future.
Edited by zebedee on Monday 18th March 12:39
Ozzie Osmond said:
Applying for a winding-up order is standard practice if you've got a customer who won't pay their bills. In this case it's almost certainly a supplier to Lotus who's got fed up with not being paid.
A company in good health can just shrug these things off as nonsense.
A company which is in difficulties can be heavily embarrassed.
Guess which category Lotus are in?
Precisely.A company in good health can just shrug these things off as nonsense.
A company which is in difficulties can be heavily embarrassed.
Guess which category Lotus are in?
zebedee said:
As I understand things:
IF this is what is happening here, applying for winding up if the debt is genuinely in dispute is an abuse of process and will be kicked out. If the debt is uncontested and hasn't been paid, that is when you apply for winding up.
People often threaten winding up, knowing it is an abuse, for the exact reason that has happened here - it is basically SHOUTING VERY LOUD so that your debt has a good chance of being looked at sharpish!
I for one hope Lotus can ride this out and maintain some kind of (admittedly not much) confidence in its future.
IF this is what is happening here, applying for winding up if the debt is genuinely in dispute is an abuse of process and will be kicked out. If the debt is uncontested and hasn't been paid, that is when you apply for winding up.
People often threaten winding up, knowing it is an abuse, for the exact reason that has happened here - it is basically SHOUTING VERY LOUD so that your debt has a good chance of being looked at sharpish!
I for one hope Lotus can ride this out and maintain some kind of (admittedly not much) confidence in its future.
to both points. But sometimes it's a last resort when you feel like you're getting fobbed-off - hence why it was introduced, to give small co's a real lever vs take-the-mickey large co's.If Lotus HAVE paid the debt (as claimed on p.1) then the court-case should be very short and uneventful. If they haven't, this is a very hard rattling of their cage as they're (very likely) taking the p out of a probably smaller (& thus equally cash-strapped) supplier.
Automotive mfrs are well-known for squeezing Tier-1's until they squeak. In cases like Lotus a supplier with >>100 days of invoices outstanding could be forgiven for getting (a) nervous and (b) angry.
Lotus, IMHO, are fools - they could well do without this sort of publicity, lest they go the way Rover and Saab did when the customer market lost confidence in their long-term viability.
mwstewart said:
Agem said:
There are few words that can sum up my total delight at this LONG over due news. I feel like that woman off the "Teminator" when she kills Schwarzengger in the power press at the end of the film.....not that Lotus EVER built anything that well built or fit for purpose!!!!!
The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
I'm surprised I haven't heard of this before, what with how old that platform now is. What is the exact problem?The number of good people whom have left this earth while behind the wheel of an Elise with its "trick" collaspe-rear suspension. I tried to warn people & even befriended one chap in the US........he joked with me & was DEAD 45 mins later after is Elise suddenly speared across the road into the path of a SUV........He told me it made him fell like an F1 ace, he left this World like one....Jochen Rindt !
I pray that "This is it" & like TVR its gone for good!
Agem
Lucky!
The Suspension collasped just after he turned off a freeway, note the transmission oil on the ground caused by the half shalft being pulled out.
EDIT: Just googled it - Rear toe link failure.
Edited by mwstewart on Monday 18th March 11:28
remoh said:
Andy Zarse said:
What was the old Ford marketing strap-line?
"Win on sunday, sell on monday..."
Now it's more like - Win on sunday, declared bankrupt on monday!
The team is sponsored by the car makers so I understand. "Win on sunday, sell on monday..."
Now it's more like - Win on sunday, declared bankrupt on monday!
I don't think Colin Chapman was french and enstone is not hethel..
The only conclusion we can make to date is Lotus haven't sold enough cars. Why? Can't compete with the competition on price and quality. Rather like TVR.
Whilst the new Exige looks fabulous and I am sure drives well, it has serious practical issues, in particular, very hard to get in and out of for all but the most committed. I would have bought one but would look ridiculous getting in and out of it and my wife just laughed when I asked her to get in and see what she thinks. If its only to be a track day car, I would rather have a Radical/Caterham or a Mk1 Golf kitted out for track days. The Elise and Evora have much the same problems and just aren't particularly comfortable, (at least from my experience of an Elise). You can't, as in the past, just appeal to: a). Males, b) exclusively to committed young petrol heads. Why? because woman form a massive part of the (sports) car market and with the cost of cars these days, not many 20 somethings have the sort of money to buy these products new. By the time they are ready, perhaps mid thirties they tend to be married/or want something a little more practical...Ford RS, Golf GTi/AudiS3,BMW M3, AMG C class, Cayman/Boxer, 911, RangeRover Sport. I suspect even the alfa 4C will struggle to compete in what is a very competitive market. The competitors are seriously well engineered, very competitively prices with the economies of scale associated with part sharing within their group of companies, spend millions testing components to ensure reliability and tend to have reasonable resale values.
Whilst the new Exige looks fabulous and I am sure drives well, it has serious practical issues, in particular, very hard to get in and out of for all but the most committed. I would have bought one but would look ridiculous getting in and out of it and my wife just laughed when I asked her to get in and see what she thinks. If its only to be a track day car, I would rather have a Radical/Caterham or a Mk1 Golf kitted out for track days. The Elise and Evora have much the same problems and just aren't particularly comfortable, (at least from my experience of an Elise). You can't, as in the past, just appeal to: a). Males, b) exclusively to committed young petrol heads. Why? because woman form a massive part of the (sports) car market and with the cost of cars these days, not many 20 somethings have the sort of money to buy these products new. By the time they are ready, perhaps mid thirties they tend to be married/or want something a little more practical...Ford RS, Golf GTi/AudiS3,BMW M3, AMG C class, Cayman/Boxer, 911, RangeRover Sport. I suspect even the alfa 4C will struggle to compete in what is a very competitive market. The competitors are seriously well engineered, very competitively prices with the economies of scale associated with part sharing within their group of companies, spend millions testing components to ensure reliability and tend to have reasonable resale values.
Edited by Nick644 on Monday 18th March 13:14
Tier 1s can often be pushed around by OEMs, but Lotus arn't that big and some of the Tier 1s are huge (Bosch, Siemens, KS Pierburg, Mahle, Behr etc etc)
Given that Bahar set the company off on a massive engineering exercise to develop several new products in a much higher league, with higher volumes than they're normal marketplace then I can see that some of the big Tier 1 supplier who were involved could be left with a lot of unpaid bills for development programmes on canned projects.
Given that Bahar set the company off on a massive engineering exercise to develop several new products in a much higher league, with higher volumes than they're normal marketplace then I can see that some of the big Tier 1 supplier who were involved could be left with a lot of unpaid bills for development programmes on canned projects.
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