Full bmw service history
Discussion
king disgrace.stevesingo said:
Most would choose the BMWSH, but what servicing have the cars have had? Probably an oil service an air filter, a microfilter and brake fluid. Nothing an independant could not carry out as well as a dealer. There is a chance that the indy has ignored the CBS indication and changed the oil every 12 months and done the filters at the same time, in which case what would you by now?
Is there?Only if the customer specifically requested it IMHO.
My M3 will be going nowhere near a BMW dealer for its servicing! My local Indi has a good reputation and I've been very happy with any work they have done on it so far. The SH on my car is mainly from indi's anyway and this is not going to change while i own it. 10 years old, 38k on the clock and drives / looks like new
Personally I think a good independent is perfectly capable of doing a decent service with decent parts so it doesn't matter that much.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
blindswelledrat said:
Personally I think a good independent is perfectly capable of doing a decent service with decent parts so it doesn't matter that much.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
An extremely good point, If you have the money to keep throwing at bmw, tht statement on its own would make you quite happy the rest of the car has never wanted for anything ! On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
blindswelledrat said:
Personally I think a good independent is perfectly capable of doing a decent service with decent parts so it doesn't matter that much.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
Or just a fool that's easy to part with their money.On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
I was going to keep my 5 series with its full BMW sh, I got a price for a major service and MOT that was just over £600, an Indy using BMW parts etc was half that.
blindswelledrat said:
Personally I think a good independent is perfectly capable of doing a decent service with decent parts so it doesn't matter that much.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
Not so. I've actually had a BMW main dealer *refuse* to do things I specifically requested when putting my car in for what they regarded as "unnecessary" servicing according to CBT - specifically I insist on having oil and filter changes significantly more often than the CBT calls for, at an absolute maximum of 10,000 miles.On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
For me the ability to listen to what they are actually told to do is one of the main advantages of an indy, who is not wedded to some spurious BMW notion of over-optimistic service intervals, and can understand the concept of maintaining a car proactively for a more or less indefinite service life rather than to simply get out of the warranty period before it gives up.
Lowtimer said:
Not so. I've actually had a BMW main dealer *refuse* to do things I specifically requested when putting my car in for what they regarded as "unnecessary" servicing according to CBT - specifically I insist on having oil and filter changes significantly more often than the CBT calls for, at an absolute maximum of 10,000 miles.
For me the ability to listen to what they are actually told to do is one of the main advantages of an indy, who is not wedded to some spurious BMW notion of over-optimistic service intervals, and can understand the concept of maintaining a car proactively for a more or less indefinite service life rather than to simply get out of the warranty period before it gives up.
No offense, but that isolated anecdote doesn't make it "not so".For me the ability to listen to what they are actually told to do is one of the main advantages of an indy, who is not wedded to some spurious BMW notion of over-optimistic service intervals, and can understand the concept of maintaining a car proactively for a more or less indefinite service life rather than to simply get out of the warranty period before it gives up.
It's just a general guide in the same way that if you buy a 10 year old one owner BMW, that one owner has probably treated and maintained it like a £30k car for all it's life as opposed to an 8 owner car, 2 of whom have maintained it like a £5k car
james280779 said:
dealers do not have to provide a warranty under the sales of goods act 2003. However if something goes wrong within the first six months of the new owner taking the car - THEY MUST PROVE that the fault did not exist when selling the car, not the other way around as they try to make you believe. This is virtually impossible so hence why any decent garage offer 6 months warranty, they are responsible for repairing the car at their own cost and any charges incurred with it (such as towing and hotel).
A warranty is pretty much useless and not worth the paper its written on - however your legal rights are very clear and a warranty is not needed for you to claim.
I also read on here about persons wanting to reject a faulty new car after purchase, Again the sales of goods act supports this and you are entitled to a FULL REFUND, there is a grey area around reasonable time however.
I rejected a car under SOGA and received a full refund last week. The key is not to get too emotional and ensure that everything is documented so that you can clearly demonstrate the opportunity(ies) to rectify the fault has been given and this is a last resort.A warranty is pretty much useless and not worth the paper its written on - however your legal rights are very clear and a warranty is not needed for you to claim.
I also read on here about persons wanting to reject a faulty new car after purchase, Again the sales of goods act supports this and you are entitled to a FULL REFUND, there is a grey area around reasonable time however.
blindswelledrat said:
No offense, but that isolated anecdote doesn't make it "not so".
It's just a general guide in the same way that if you buy a 10 year old one owner BMW, that one owner has probably treated and maintained it like a £30k car for all it's life as opposed to an 8 owner car, 2 of whom have maintained it like a £5k car
a) it's not an anecdote, it's a fact. I was extremely angry with the BMW dealer concerned for blatantly wasting my time and refusing to carry out my instructions, and if it were not for the 'name and shame' rules in force here I would be very happy to call them out on it in public.It's just a general guide in the same way that if you buy a 10 year old one owner BMW, that one owner has probably treated and maintained it like a £30k car for all it's life as opposed to an 8 owner car, 2 of whom have maintained it like a £5k car
b) it's also a fact that a given budget will buy a lot more preventative maintenance (i.e. things that CBT says are premature / not needed) outside, rather than within, the main dealer network.
The CBT regime is not good at all for the long life of cars: it is intended to minimise the labour input during the warranty period and nothing else.
Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 11th October 14:03
icruze said:
blindswelledrat said:
Personally I think a good independent is perfectly capable of doing a decent service with decent parts so it doesn't matter that much.
On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
An extremely good point, If you have the money to keep throwing at bmw, tht statement on its own would make you quite happy the rest of the car has never wanted for anything ! On the flip side, someone who swaps from main dealer to an independent is someone who is looking to cut down on running costs. Not negative in it's own right, but someone who still pays main dealer prices on a 3+ year car with a bit of mileage on it is definitely someone who is more likely to to keep the car maintained regardless of cost.
IME, you're more likely to get a car that's been maintained to a better standard that's been serviced by an indy rather than a main dealer. They fix things rather than replace parts.
james280779 said:
dealers do not have to provide a warranty under the sales of goods act 2003. However if something goes wrong within the first six months of the new owner taking the car - THEY MUST PROVE that the fault did not exist when selling the car, not the other way around as they try to make you believe. This is virtually impossible so hence why any decent garage offer 6 months warranty, they are responsible for repairing the car at their own cost and any charges incurred with it (such as towing and hotel).
So we can all go and buy a £750 snotter and do 20,000 miles in it over 6 months safe in the knowledge that anything which goes with it will be fixed by someone? Well, that's everyones cheap motoring sorted then.... ;((What you say is technically true....but you need to add in allowances for wear and tear, price, mileage, nature of sale etc. Basically, you buy a 2 year old car with 30k on the clock and you have very strong claims for faults and rejection. Buy a car for £3k and it blows up down the road you still have rights to reject it. Buy a £3k car with 120k on the clock and the gearbox goes kaput 5 months and 12k miles later and forget it).
confused_buyer said:
So we can all go and buy a £750 snotter and do 20,000 miles in it over 6 months safe in the knowledge that anything which goes with it will be fixed by someone? Well, that's everyones cheap motoring sorted then.... ;(
(What you say is technically true....but you need to add in allowances for wear and tear, price, mileage, nature of sale etc. Basically, you buy a 2 year old car with 30k on the clock and you have very strong claims for faults and rejection. Buy a car for £3k and it blows up down the road you still have rights to reject it. Buy a £3k car with 120k on the clock and the gearbox goes kaput 5 months and 12k miles later and forget it).
That's not strictly true. The car I rejected was 8 years old, 80k miles, bought for £11k and the gearbox went kaput after 4 months of ownership.(What you say is technically true....but you need to add in allowances for wear and tear, price, mileage, nature of sale etc. Basically, you buy a 2 year old car with 30k on the clock and you have very strong claims for faults and rejection. Buy a car for £3k and it blows up down the road you still have rights to reject it. Buy a £3k car with 120k on the clock and the gearbox goes kaput 5 months and 12k miles later and forget it).
5 visits to the vendor for repairs yielded no resolution, so it was successfully rejected under SOGA
I've got a 2005 E46 M3 which I've owned from a year old, now showing 70k miles. I was happy to pay Main Stealer servicing during it's initial 3 year warranty, but after that it's been in the hands of two reputable indies who I am totally happy with. I work between two locations, so it's a case of which is most convenient at the time.
I trust them more than a main dealer, simply becuae I get to have a good conversation about the car with the man doing the actual work, rather than the all very nice corporate but slightly cloak & dagger secrecy of the main agent world. Am I paying for a BMW Master Technician or an apprentice at the main dealer? You can never be sure. My indies use genuine BMW parts, they are just a much cheaper labour rate.
TBH the value of my car has dropped so much since I paid close to £40K for it I've decided to keep it and run it until the point it becomes too uneconomical to keep. Fuel costs aside (I do a short local commute, so mpg is low 20's) It's been a relatively inexpensive performance car to own. However as/when I come to sell it, if some punter comes wanting to chip me because I don't have a sheaf of recent main dealer receipts and stamps on a 10yr+ old car I'll think they're in cloud cuckoo land.
I trust them more than a main dealer, simply becuae I get to have a good conversation about the car with the man doing the actual work, rather than the all very nice corporate but slightly cloak & dagger secrecy of the main agent world. Am I paying for a BMW Master Technician or an apprentice at the main dealer? You can never be sure. My indies use genuine BMW parts, they are just a much cheaper labour rate.
TBH the value of my car has dropped so much since I paid close to £40K for it I've decided to keep it and run it until the point it becomes too uneconomical to keep. Fuel costs aside (I do a short local commute, so mpg is low 20's) It's been a relatively inexpensive performance car to own. However as/when I come to sell it, if some punter comes wanting to chip me because I don't have a sheaf of recent main dealer receipts and stamps on a 10yr+ old car I'll think they're in cloud cuckoo land.
schmalex said:
That's not strictly true. The car I rejected was 8 years old, 80k miles, bought for £11k and the gearbox went kaput after 4 months of ownership.
5 visits to the vendor for repairs yielded no resolution, so it was successfully rejected under SOGA
There is quite a difference between £11k and £3k. Did you actually reject it under SOGA (i.e. go to court, win case, persue getting money back etc.) or did the dealer just agree to refund you?5 visits to the vendor for repairs yielded no resolution, so it was successfully rejected under SOGA
I'd expect any decent dealer to go beyond the pretty meager SOGA protection on most, if not all, cars. The vast majority of dealers refund and repair not because they are remotely concerned about SOGA but because they care about their repuation and are in it for the long term. If you actually end up in court on older cars it is not as clear cut as people think. (On newer ones, more so).
confused_buyer said:
schmalex said:
That's not strictly true. The car I rejected was 8 years old, 80k miles, bought for £11k and the gearbox went kaput after 4 months of ownership.
5 visits to the vendor for repairs yielded no resolution, so it was successfully rejected under SOGA
There is quite a difference between £11k and £3k. Did you actually reject it under SOGA (i.e. go to court, win case, persue getting money back etc.) or did the dealer just agree to refund you?5 visits to the vendor for repairs yielded no resolution, so it was successfully rejected under SOGA
I'd expect any decent dealer to go beyond the pretty meager SOGA protection on most, if not all, cars. The vast majority of dealers refund and repair not because they are remotely concerned about SOGA but because they care about their repuation and are in it for the long term. If you actually end up in court on older cars it is not as clear cut as people think. (On newer ones, more so).
schmalex said:
I rejected it quoting the relevant sections of SOGA and the dealer refunded me before it needed to get to court. In this instance, the dealer far surpassed my customer service expectations.
Exactly. They did it because it was the decent thing to do. To be honest, had they been a bunch of whatsits and you'd had to go to court it would have taken ages and on that age and mileage and the fault you had you may have got something but not necessarily what you wanted. It might also have taken a year, you would have had to go to mediation first, it would have involved days off work, engineers reports, second engineers reports, goodness knows what else and you still might have lost. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff