RE: Porsche 917/30: Driven
Discussion
Fire99 said:
These raw and brutal cars (and their ilk) are much missed in motor racing. From a time where bravery and driver skill were applauded.
I think most of us on PH missed the memo to stop celebrating bravery and driver skill and to be honest I don't think there was a memo sent out at all.What all racing cars, of whatever parentage and formula, hope to grow up to be . . .
I was lucky enough to grow up in the Bay Area during the Can Am era and saw all of that big iron, including all the 917s, from Siffert's non-turbocharged precursor in 1971 to the Mark Donohue in the 917/30 in 1973 (Laguna in under a minute!) and they were religious to hear and watch. If you could hear them over the Chevys.
I was lucky enough to grow up in the Bay Area during the Can Am era and saw all of that big iron, including all the 917s, from Siffert's non-turbocharged precursor in 1971 to the Mark Donohue in the 917/30 in 1973 (Laguna in under a minute!) and they were religious to hear and watch. If you could hear them over the Chevys.
I hope Chris takes the time to read our mumblings and comments, particularly this one re such an epic vehicle and by his own admission a poodle round B/Hatch with a coat to make up for his lack of body height, sounds like the throttle pedal was a "three weetabix jobbie".
hope for a CH reply, if not then thanks for the driving videos and commentaries that have made the xmas break much better.
DJRC said:
Yes and no Coppice. The /30 did steamroller everything but because there wasn't really the opposition around after Bruce died. When he karked it don't forget, he very much *was* worried about the 917 and was working on the M8F shoving out 1000 ponies. If he hadn't karked it you can absolutely bet the 917 and M8/9/F/G would have been trading 1000-1500 pony haymakers at each other and Donahue would have had serious competition.
I don't know. I doubt McLaren could've sought the budget to really take it to Porsche. Quite apart from the engine, the 917/30 was sophisticated for the day with adjustable brake bias and the like. Turbocharged McLarens did see the light of day (I'd need to check Pete Lyons' book but my recollection is that Mario Andretti raced one) but they'd have struggled to match a Penske-developed flat-12. In my opinion, at least. I'm kind of with Coppice in the sense that the 917 in /10 and /30 forms brought about a premature end to Can Am. While McLaren had dominated, I think the championship could've continued with Shadow, Lola, Bryant, et al rather successfully. Nobody had the budget to challenge Penske-Porsche - not even Jim Hall!
A wonderful car on its own merits and I'm glad it exists but it brought about the end.
Oh and, PH, it might be worth checking the numbers on the Talladega record. Or at least clarifying whether the quotation refers to average or maximum speed. Lap average was a scarcely believable 221mph. Just think about that for a second: 221mph average in 1975; and in a car designed for the sinuous road circuits of North America.
Magnificent madness.
I sometimes moan about being 50, but it does have its positives, namely being old enough to remember these cars in period, the same as Ford Escorts rallying, and F1 starting to sprut ludicrous aerofoils (as they were often called back then).
Proper, as Tom Kerridge (the cook) would say....
I sometimes moan about being 50, but it does have its positives, namely being old enough to remember these cars in period, the same as Ford Escorts rallying, and F1 starting to sprut ludicrous aerofoils (as they were often called back then).
Proper, as Tom Kerridge (the cook) would say....
dafeller said:
...Mark Donohue in the 917/30 in 1973 (Laguna in under a minute!) and they were religious to hear and watch.
I had to check this: looks like the unofficial record is Marc Gene (1:05.786 in a Ferrari 2003-GA) in 2012. The official lap record seems to be 1:07.722 by Helio Castroneves in a 2000 Penske Champ Car.Donohue's 1973 quali lap was 57.?? seconds! I appreciate that the track layout has probably changed since '73 - that's just insane.
I believe that Kauhsen 917/10 raced at the Coys Historic back in the late 1990s. I'd need to check my programme archive to confirm the year though. That remains the only time I've seen one of the pukka Group 7 917s race. It was also at the FoS in 2009 for the 917's 40th birthday celebrations.
Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
k me, that is just sex.Something about the insane power and lightweight body reminds me of this.
http://autoscara.com/data_images/gallery/tvr-cerbe...
TVR Speed 12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Cerbera_Speed_12
http://autoscara.com/data_images/gallery/tvr-cerbe...
TVR Speed 12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Cerbera_Speed_12
chevronb37 said:
I believe that Kauhsen 917/10 raced at the Coys Historic back in the late 1990s. I'd need to check my programme archive to confirm the year though. That remains the only time I've seen one of the pukka Group 7 917s race. It was also at the FoS in 2009 for the 917's 40th birthday celebrations.
Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Loiiioking at this it says 6 cars built but only 3 raced. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/sn/422/Porsche-917-...Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Nowt about the Kauhsen car though which he was given by the factory.
tr7v8 said:
chevronb37 said:
I believe that Kauhsen 917/10 raced at the Coys Historic back in the late 1990s. I'd need to check my programme archive to confirm the year though. That remains the only time I've seen one of the pukka Group 7 917s race. It was also at the FoS in 2009 for the 917's 40th birthday celebrations.
Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Loiiioking at this it says 6 cars built but only 3 raced. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/sn/422/Porsche-917-...Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Nowt about the Kauhsen car though which he was given by the factory.
chevronb37 said:
tr7v8 said:
chevronb37 said:
I believe that Kauhsen 917/10 raced at the Coys Historic back in the late 1990s. I'd need to check my programme archive to confirm the year though. That remains the only time I've seen one of the pukka Group 7 917s race. It was also at the FoS in 2009 for the 917's 40th birthday celebrations.
Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Loiiioking at this it says 6 cars built but only 3 raced. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/sn/422/Porsche-917-...Is it the same car he raced in Interserie back in the early-mid 1970s? I'm Coppice will know.
Nowt about the Kauhsen car though which he was given by the factory.
Chassis 917/10-001 was completed late in 1971 and served as the original Porsche test car. Fitted with a naturally aspirated engine, it was sold to Willi Kauhsen halfway through the 1972 season. He quickly upgraded the 917/10 with a turbocharged engine and subsequently raced it on both sides of the Atlantic in Bosch colours. Highlights of its career include three Interserie wins at Nürburgring in Kauhsen's hands. The car was used into the 1974 season when Emerson Fittipaldi placed it sixth at an Interserie race at the Nürburgring. Kauhsen held onto the car until very recently. The new owner, a German collector, can be seen here in action during the 2009 Goodwood Festival of Speed where 40 years of the Porsche 917 was celebrated.
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