RE: US coast-to-coast drive for Tesla Model S

[Dave Hedgehog]

The self righteous EV evangelism marches ever onwards

sigh

[ewenm]

Dave Hedgehog said:

The self righteous EV evangelism marches ever onwards

sigh

Why does it bother you? It doesn't bother me, there will be fun petrol cars around for a long time yet and I won't be swapping the Caterham for an EV any time soon.

If that can be combined with cleaner urban areas then even better.

There's a difference between understanding the benefits EVs can offer to some/many drivers and wanting everyone to drive an EV.

[thatdude]

howertings said:

How does this compare with the energy usage of an ordinary ICE car for the same journey, I thought to myself.
Well, my rough and ready calc came out as follows:

Energy usage per Tesla = 1200/2 kWh per car = 600 kWh per car
With 1kWh = 3.6MJ then
Energy usage per Tesla = 600x3.6MJ = 2160MJ
With, say, a 50% efficiency in the electricity generation and distribution system then
"Gross" energy required per Tesla = 2060/0.5MJ = 4120MJ

For an economical ordinary ICE car, say fuel consumption of 5.0l/100km,
then for a journey of 3464 miles = 5540km
Fuel consumption = 5540x0.05 litres = 277 litres
With an energy density of 35MJ/l then
Energy usage = 277x35MJ = 9700MJ
Allowing say 2.0kWh per litre to refine and distribute gasoline then
Energy required to supply gasoline = 277x2.0x3.6MJ = 2000MJ
So "Gross" energy required per ICE car = 9700 + 2000 MJ = 11700MJ

So the electric car in use would appear to require less than 40% of the energy of an ordinary ICE car. Hmmmmm.....

An excellent bit of number crunching!

I really like the idea of owning a Tesla. I couldnt afford one yet, but their tech seems to be spot on. 30 minutes to recharge for another 170 miles? I dont mind that. Let it charge, grab a snack and a cup of tea, go to the loo, whatever. I can only get 150 miles from my motorcycle before filling up so 170 miles is fine

I want one, really want one.


on a side note, I saw one of those BMW i3's going clockwise around the m25 the other day - looked really smart

[LovesSweetExile]

SteveSteveson said:

LovesSweetExile said:

Fartgalen said:

Sounds like a reasonable achievement. But still. 170 miles and then you have to stop for half an hour ?

I don't see this as much of a problem in the UK. I can't think of the last time I did >170 miles non-stop. I of course realise that I can't speak for everyone but for the vast and overwhelming majority of drivers, I believe I'm in the majority.

Yes, but when a charging point is 200 miles away it makes it somewhat of a problem.

Then the solution would be to not buy one. The same reason why they don't sell many snowboards in Egypt, I imagine.

[LovesSweetExile]

Dave Hedgehog said:

The self righteous EV evangelism marches ever onwards

sigh

In directly proportional amounts to the simplistic rantings of morons.

[Mr E]

Devil2575 said:

I'm not one of these macho "I drove 500 miles without stopping" types

"and I would drive 500 more"


It's in your head now isn't it.

You're welcome.

[Dave Hedgehog]

ewenm said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

The self righteous EV evangelism marches ever onwards

sigh

Why does it bother you? It doesn't bother me, there will be fun petrol cars around for a long time yet and I won't be swapping the Caterham for an EV any time soon.

If that can be combined with cleaner urban areas then even better.

There's a difference between understanding the benefits EVs can offer to some/many drivers and wanting everyone to drive an EV.

because it will be enforced on every one by the weak minded eco nut jobs

and even if we can keep them out of power in the long term (which i doubt) the switch to EV cars will force the government to switch to road pricing to raise the lost tax revenue which will pretty much force anybody of the road in peak time whose not in an EV car and who is not rich



vote me into power i will ban EV Cars and hybrids will be required to have a 5.0 V8 minimum

[kambites]

From what I can remember, I've done one car trip in my life that the higher energy model-S wouldn't have been suitable for.

[LovesSweetExile]

Dave Hedgehog said:

vote me into power i will ban EV Cars and hybrids will be required to have a 5.0 V8 minimum

There's a broken vacuum cleaner in the cupboard behind me. I'd sooner vote that into power.

[drocter81]

I test drove the Tesla P85+ last weekend and it was a revelation.

For many it has all the questions answered.. incredible performance with pleasing looks, tax efficiency, even a 7 seat option(under 1.35m kids). They have a £50k model which is still mighty quick off the mark.

I was disappointed to see that some items were missing from the options list like surround view cameras and self park. Overall the packaging is excellent and charging is free in selected spots in London and at Motorway Supercharge stations for life!!

I would seriously be questioning spending £50k on a CLS/6 series now I've seen this.

[r11co]

kambites said:

electric cars seem to at worst match ICE powered one for energy cost and they still have the enormous advantage that you can generate your energy away from people and from a greater variety of fuels.

When all electricity is generated using nuclear power then this will make a lot of sense.

The ultimate ecomentalists dilemma!

[crosseyedlion]

drocter81 said:

I was disappointed to see that some items were missing from the options list like surround view cameras and self park.

No self parking!? How will we manage?

I'd love a test drive of one of these, from an engineering (simplicity and effectiveness) standpoint its my perfect car.

[drocter81]

crosseyedlion said:

drocter81 said:

I was disappointed to see that some items were missing from the options list like surround view cameras and self park.

No self parking!? How will we manage?

I'd love a test drive of one of these, from an engineering (simplicity and effectiveness) standpoint its my perfect car.

LOL.. I live in central London and have self-park on my 6 series..I'll be honest, it's mostly used to impress my mates, but it does work astoundingly well in really tight spaces and in those situations, ensures the wheels remain unkerbed.

Surround camera is just witchraft, ideal for getting a a 5+ metre car through a McDonalds drivethru

[Bargenosenti]

The Tesla store in Westfield Shep Bush is very impressive.

EV debate aside, nice looking car the Model S - but the rollout of suitable charge points to make it worthwhile is crucial (stating the bleeding obvious there I know!)

[Vantagefan]

Spelling and grammar fiends will be cringing at this article.

[Orangecurry]

Mr E said:

Devil2575 said:

I'm not one of these macho "I drove 500 miles without stopping" types

"and I would drive 500 more"


It's in your head now isn't it.

You're welcome.

Damn - it's in my head now.

[Captain Muppet]

Mr E said:

Devil2575 said:

I'm not one of these macho "I drove 500 miles without stopping" types

"and I would drive 500 more"


It's in your head now isn't it.

You're welcome.

>hears music in head<

Dammit.

[MX7]

SteveSteveson said:

Yes, but when a charging point is 200 miles away it makes it somewhat of a problem.

Nowt gets past you, clearly.

[British Beef]

crosseyedlion said:

drocter81 said:

I was disappointed to see that some items were missing from the options list like surround view cameras and self park.

No self parking!? How will we manage?

I'd love a test drive of one of these, from an engineering (simplicity and effectiveness) standpoint its my perfect car.

I had a drive of one last week (working in Norway they are very common as cost about the same as an entry level BMW 520 over here around 60k Noks - £60k)
The Good - Nicely built, good looking 5 + 2 seating (+2 in the boot I sat in but could not close boot for small kids only), plents of boot space in rear and front boot. Driving even 5 up it is fast BUT totally emotionless, no engine noise no rising revs and no gear change really nulify the experience & enjoyment of going fast (and it is fast, 0-100mph faster than a new M5).

The Bad - range is in "optimistic conditions" I used 25 miles of range doing 2 miles of accelerating & braking, although no different to other manufacturers claims of MPG. Only difference is time to charge up, supercharger is 30 min, but you need a direct line to the nearest transformer or 24 hours at regular mains voltage for a full charge.

In Norway they make perfect sense - Low cost (no taxes), no parking charge, no road tolls, you can use bus lanes and free charging points in public carparks...... Already becoming a problem in Oslo, where the bus lanes are frequently choked with.....electric cars!!!

[alock]

howertings said:

How does this compare with the energy usage of an ordinary ICE car for the same journey, I thought to myself.
Well, my rough and ready calc came out as follows:

Energy usage per Tesla = 1200/2 kWh per car = 600 kWh per car
With 1kWh = 3.6MJ then
Energy usage per Tesla = 600x3.6MJ = 2160MJ
With, say, a 50% efficiency in the electricity generation and distribution system then
"Gross" energy required per Tesla = 2060/0.5MJ = 4120MJ

For an economical ordinary ICE car, say fuel consumption of 5.0l/100km,
then for a journey of 3464 miles = 5540km
Fuel consumption = 5540x0.05 litres = 277 litres
With an energy density of 35MJ/l then
Energy usage = 277x35MJ = 9700MJ
Allowing say 2.0kWh per litre to refine and distribute gasoline then
Energy required to supply gasoline = 277x2.0x3.6MJ = 2000MJ
So "Gross" energy required per ICE car = 9700 + 2000 MJ = 11700MJ

So the electric car in use would appear to require less than 40% of the energy of an ordinary ICE car. Hmmmmm.....

I believe most petrol engines are about 30-40% efficient so that would tie in with your numbers. However a power station is a long way from 100% efficiency as well.