RE: Alfa 4C Spider - Detroit 2015
Discussion
Yup, it's exactly why Lotus is screwed.errek72 said:
Looking at my garage I would suggest I know what I am on about when talking about the 4C.
I heard that reasoning before though, but never see this when a 911 driver talks about Porsche. Odd.
Exise S was 20 000k dearer in my market. If your margin for buying a car is 20k is would suggest a GTR really.
In my market they are exactly the same price...I heard that reasoning before though, but never see this when a 911 driver talks about Porsche. Odd.
Exise S was 20 000k dearer in my market. If your margin for buying a car is 20k is would suggest a GTR really.
Not sure what the 911 comment has to do with me either to be honest. 4C promised a lot and wanted it to do well but as soon as the engine/gearbox combination was released it was a no go for me and killed the car it needed a manual box to deliver the pure driving experience it promised not a flappy paddle job.
Nothing against Alfa my Dad has had a few and nearly got a GTV Cup myself just for me the 4C is close to being a great car but a few details spoil it whereas for me the V6 Exige just seems like a fantastic package for £50k with me also preferring the looks as well.
I hope you enjoy your car though it would be boring if we all felt the same!
errek72 said:
Uncle John said:
And for everyone that knocks the 4C I just don't understand it, it's a car from a mainstream manufacturer that goes against all the trends for crass, bling SUV/lifestyle insert "Fashion" of choice genre here and appeals to the driver in all of us, or at least it should.
That is exactly why it gets knocked. Everyone wants Alfa to produce a decent sporty car, and when they do everyone starts about Caymans being more comfy and in the end they all step into their grey Golfs and drive home from work. That is the way the herd works.The sheople must have grey cars from the Germans.
Looking forward to the Giulia QV with a projected 450hp, only in grey though.....
Having driven one in Switzerland owning a 75 2L ts, a Gtv 3l V6 and a 145QV I would say the following:
1. The engine, inside the cabin and with racing exhaust, is the best sounding 4 pot of all time. End of. Even better than a Busso V6
2. The gearbox is silly
3. It is a massive compromise over everything else
4. People that say "i'd rather have aluminium over carbon fiber", they have to sit inside and drive the 4c. I was of the same opinion until I realised just how much of a special place it is to be in (typical alfa).
5. The speed of it is riduculous - utterly ridiculous. All the test I have seen don't show the "hidden" launch control - which holds the engine at 6000rpm (iirc) - with the hidden launch control there have been reports of much lower than reported 0-100km, 0-60 etc etc (i think sub 4.3s to 60).
6. It is very easy to drive in town and I felt immediately at home with it (possibly because I drive Alfas), except rear visibility is poor
7. The mpg is crazy good
8. The car pick up speed so quickly that it is easy to go into a corner too hot and give it the "bad handling" label. Having said that, I drove one on winter tyres, and I noticed some under-steer and vagueness
9. This car gets more looks than most Ferraris, specially the paintwork!
The real shame with these cars is that they are such a compromise that they are essentially toys. You need to be rich to own one because it will mean you will have another car for something else. To that extent, it sits rather awkwardly in a niche market segment: the toy track car that may not be very quick around the track (compared to X-bows, caterhams etc etc) but isn't as well refined as a Porsche(or whatever people want to compare it to) but is economical to own (who cares when it is a toy?).
Overall though, it is incredible value for money and an excellent car. The argument vs Porsche is useless on the account that it will cost you a fortune to run a Porsche, the porker is more expensive and people who chose Porsche are not the target owner for Alfa. Alfa target Alfisti: nice people who like driving. Not people who seem to like a car because of the badge (sorry but that is the case of 90% of Porsche drivers, at least here in ch).
The bigger threat is the Lotus argument - but Lotus doesn't look as exotic, doesn't sound as exotic and I'm sure that if they made a 4c with alu tub it would be considerably cheaper than a Lotus not forgetting that this Alfa is currently beating both Porsche and Lotus in keeping its value.
Shame that my track-slag 1989 75 handles as well as this!
1. The engine, inside the cabin and with racing exhaust, is the best sounding 4 pot of all time. End of. Even better than a Busso V6
2. The gearbox is silly
3. It is a massive compromise over everything else
4. People that say "i'd rather have aluminium over carbon fiber", they have to sit inside and drive the 4c. I was of the same opinion until I realised just how much of a special place it is to be in (typical alfa).
5. The speed of it is riduculous - utterly ridiculous. All the test I have seen don't show the "hidden" launch control - which holds the engine at 6000rpm (iirc) - with the hidden launch control there have been reports of much lower than reported 0-100km, 0-60 etc etc (i think sub 4.3s to 60).
6. It is very easy to drive in town and I felt immediately at home with it (possibly because I drive Alfas), except rear visibility is poor
7. The mpg is crazy good
8. The car pick up speed so quickly that it is easy to go into a corner too hot and give it the "bad handling" label. Having said that, I drove one on winter tyres, and I noticed some under-steer and vagueness
9. This car gets more looks than most Ferraris, specially the paintwork!
The real shame with these cars is that they are such a compromise that they are essentially toys. You need to be rich to own one because it will mean you will have another car for something else. To that extent, it sits rather awkwardly in a niche market segment: the toy track car that may not be very quick around the track (compared to X-bows, caterhams etc etc) but isn't as well refined as a Porsche(or whatever people want to compare it to) but is economical to own (who cares when it is a toy?).
Overall though, it is incredible value for money and an excellent car. The argument vs Porsche is useless on the account that it will cost you a fortune to run a Porsche, the porker is more expensive and people who chose Porsche are not the target owner for Alfa. Alfa target Alfisti: nice people who like driving. Not people who seem to like a car because of the badge (sorry but that is the case of 90% of Porsche drivers, at least here in ch).
The bigger threat is the Lotus argument - but Lotus doesn't look as exotic, doesn't sound as exotic and I'm sure that if they made a 4c with alu tub it would be considerably cheaper than a Lotus not forgetting that this Alfa is currently beating both Porsche and Lotus in keeping its value.
Shame that my track-slag 1989 75 handles as well as this!
Edited by buellboy on Tuesday 13th January 12:29
Edited by buellboy on Tuesday 13th January 12:29
Edited by buellboy on Tuesday 13th January 12:30
buellboy said:
... people who chose Porsche are not the target owner for Alfa. Alfa target Alfisti: nice people who like driving. Not people who seem to like a car because of the badge (sorry but that is the case of 90% of Porsche drivers, at least here in ch)...
Hmm, I'd say exactly the opposite. I think far more people will buy the 4C for the Alfa badge than buy a Boxster or Cayman for its Porsche one. If nothing else, no-one who buys a car primarily for how it drives, buys a car without driving it first and the vast majority of 4C buyers thus far will have committed to buy before the car was avialable to test drive. I hvaen't driven one, but I also didn't like the interior of the one I sat in. The exposed CF is far too blingy for my tastes (although I could put up with it), the digital dashboard is a gimmick I'd rather do without and the steering wheel is just vile.
Mind you, I'd never buy a turbocharged or automatic sports car anyway so I guess I'm not the target market.
I rather suspect that once the 4C ceases to be the must have fashion accessory of the moment, it'll quietly disappear.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th January 12:43
shoestring7 said:
It does seem to me that folks complaining about the UK's press criticism of the 4C's behaviour on s
te UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.
SS7
Then again, why would we?te UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.SS7
I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
errek72 said:
shoestring7 said:
It does seem to me that folks complaining about the UK's press criticism of the 4C's behaviour on ste UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.
SS7
Then again, why would we?te UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.SS7
I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
SS7
errek72 said:
Then again, why would we?
I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
As I recall, early reviews were positive and negatives only emerged after they were given cars to test in the UK.I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
shoestring7 said:
errek72 said:
shoestring7 said:
It does seem to me that folks complaining about the UK's press criticism of the 4C's behaviour on ste UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.
SS7
Then again, why would we?te UK roads don't actually drive on ste UK roads.SS7
I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
SS7
otolith said:
errek72 said:
Then again, why would we?
I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
As I recall, early reviews were positive and negatives only emerged after they were given cars to test in the UK.I am especially flabbergasted when the "british roads" argument is used while the cars are tested in the South of France, or seconds before taking the car to the track. Is it code or something?
sad61t said:
errek72 said:
There is another mag that says the exact opposite.
...
Which mag please?...
I had a very brief go in one of the coupes last year. I utterly loved it. Splendid cars. Damn thing actually cut through the jaded cynicsm I carry with me and made me feel alive, made me smile. It was all going very well until the bloke in front of me lost control of an NSX and went off into the trees! It's not as good as a Cayman, but it's also better.
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