RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce: Driven
Discussion
KTF said:
Period red plastic has no place on a dashboard.
I disagree. Coloured lower portions work well on most cars (black on top to avoid the Porsche image outlined) - and work well for red, tan, cream. Look at BMW's 6 series coupé for a good example. I'm not sure I get the "period" bit. Red is contemporary to my eyes, as is tan leather. Total black inside is a gothic horror hole for me, and is a deal breaker. That's why I'm not happy with the QF having black seats. If I want black seats, I'll buy a taxi.
kambites said:
The standard model is certainly much more cohesive looking than the QF.
You think? The Guilia strikes me as being a top down design, as opposed to the M3/C63 being bottom up?The QF, in my (admittedly biased) viewpoint, works beautifully. Mix of beauty, purpose and aggression.
Ruskins said:
GTEYE said:
Yes the Germans drop the ball too, but personally there are a few too many stories on Giulia reliability (see other threads) to really recommend it other than to die hard Alfa fans.
What stories are these? I have heard of 4, maybe 5 cars of all the ones sold that have had any kind of significant problem and almost all have been sorted out or will be sorted out under warranty by a dealer. I am seriously peed off by comments like that as the era we live in, any google search will amplify the perception of anything negative said about products. Suddenly a perfectly well made product starts to get a reputation for being badly made or unreliable simply because of a very small but highly publicised minority of examples.
I have had my car for 4 months now and its been totally faultless.
Proves the Giulia is good and worrying the Germans. As Churchill said "You have enemies? Good, It means you have stood up for something"
Ruskins said:
GTEYE said:
Yes the Germans drop the ball too, but personally there are a few too many stories on Giulia reliability (see other threads) to really recommend it other than to die hard Alfa fans.
What stories are these? I have heard of 4, maybe 5 cars of all the ones sold that have had any kind of significant problem and almost all have been sorted out or will be sorted out under warranty by a dealer. I am seriously peed off by comments like that as the era we live in, any google search will amplify the perception of anything negative said about products. Suddenly a perfectly well made product starts to get a reputation for being badly made or unreliable simply because of a very small but highly publicised minority of examples.
I have had my car for 4 months now and its been totally faultless.
www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/alfa-giul...
Maybe it is only 4 or 5 cars but one of them was PH's press car, and a few other ranting owners in the thread that followed.
But the point is Alfa had plenty of time to get this car 100% right, and from a manufacturer with a reputation to rebuild, that's what I have an issue with.
I'm glad your car has been faultless for 4 whole months, so it should be!
GTEYE said:
Ruskins said:
GTEYE said:
Yes the Germans drop the ball too, but personally there are a few too many stories on Giulia reliability (see other threads) to really recommend it other than to die hard Alfa fans.
What stories are these? I have heard of 4, maybe 5 cars of all the ones sold that have had any kind of significant problem and almost all have been sorted out or will be sorted out under warranty by a dealer. I am seriously peed off by comments like that as the era we live in, any google search will amplify the perception of anything negative said about products. Suddenly a perfectly well made product starts to get a reputation for being badly made or unreliable simply because of a very small but highly publicised minority of examples.
I have had my car for 4 months now and its been totally faultless.
www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/alfa-giul...
Maybe it is only 4 or 5 cars but one of them was PH's press car, and a few other ranting owners in the thread that followed.
But the point is Alfa had plenty of time to get this car 100% right, and from a manufacturer with a reputation to rebuild, that's what I have an issue with.
I'm glad your car has been faultless for 4 whole months, so it should be!
Every manufacturer has pre-production/new production problems. Christ, BMW had to hastily b ring out a Competition Package to counter their problems!
Ares said:
kambites said:
The standard model is certainly much more cohesive looking than the QF.
You think? The Guilia strikes me as being a top down design, as opposed to the M3/C63 being bottom up?The QF, in my (admittedly biased) viewpoint, works beautifully. Mix of beauty, purpose and aggression.
The standard car is just bland and Germanic, whether that's better or worse is questionable I suppose. It certainly doesn't look bad enough to put me off buying one if I was in that market although its looks wouldn't be a positive draw either.
ETA: I do understand why Alfa had to follow the crowd in terms of design; it's what this sector demands. It's just a bit sad after the genius that was the nose of the 159.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 20th June 17:02
Ruskins said:
GTEYE said:
Yes the Germans drop the ball too, but personally there are a few too many stories on Giulia reliability (see other threads) to really recommend it other than to die hard Alfa fans.
What stories are these? I have heard of 4, maybe 5 cars of all the ones sold that have had any kind of significant problem and almost all have been sorted out or will be sorted out under warranty by a dealer. I am seriously peed off by comments like that as the era we live in, any google search will amplify the perception of anything negative said about products. Suddenly a perfectly well made product starts to get a reputation for being badly made or unreliable simply because of a very small but highly publicised minority of examples.
I have had my car for 4 months now and its been totally faultless.
I'd had my brand-spanking 440i Cabrio 2 days before it was back at the dealer having it's engine taken apart to replace a faulty crankshaft sensor. And my 6GC before that was hardly a paragon of reliability.
BMW have sorted out any problems pretty well though, under warranty.
I've had all sorts of cars over the years, from cheap and nasty, to premium and beyond, and my experience tells me that there is inconsistency of quality across many marques, and the only marque I've had which didn't have ANY quality issues at all is Nissan - 2 x 350Z and 1 x 370Z, and they're hardly premium - go figure!
GTEYE said:
But the point is Alfa had plenty of time to get this car 100% right, and from a manufacturer with a reputation to rebuild, that's what I have an issue with.
No they didn't, A specialist engineering team built a brand new car on a brand new chassis with brand new engines in a record little amount of time (2.5 years I believe). It's not like a BMW where they just adapt the existing platform every couple of years.Forget infotainment b
ks! You're driving an Alfa, not messing around on itube! Focus on the driving experience. And get over this plasticky gear paddle nonsense. Man the hell up Pistonheads. And if you were up to date, you'd know that the 4C has now been set up for terrible British roads. They have shimmed the wishbones.
CPWilliams said:
Alloys maketh the car aesthetically, so not bringing either of the two options shown here was a mistake. The 18's on the configurator look too small. That is a lovely blue colour though, like a jazzier version of BM's Estoril.
Alfa UK independently decided to keep the black 19" wheels exclusive to the Quadrifoglio (for that purpose, exclusivity). Everywhere else in the world, including Ireland, gets them, so 'odd' product planning at best. It's probably no coincidence that this Veloce demo, the first of its kind in the UK press, was done using the Italian version of the car.The wheels as seen on the blue car will supposedly be available from September thanks only to Alfa's worldwide product development.
I was very keen to buy one but their weird UK approach and disregard for their own non-QF products has really put me off. I might wait or I might bugger off elsewhere.
Edited by trashbat on Tuesday 20th June 19:47
Perhaps what people are finding odd/worrying etc is that Top Gear, PH and Evo all had issues with their test cars (i.e. they stopped working properly). When was the last time any of the Germans had most of their test fleet stop working properly?
Then, a number of customer cars stopped working as well.
Now the problem(s) that led to all of this may be easy to fix, but the knock on affect, as proved in the threads on this car, is that many people now have a negative perception of the car's reliability (enhanced perhaps by the reliability records of ALFA models of the past). Whether people are right or wrong to have this perception is a pointless argument as they have that perception and ultimately, that is all that matters. (Forget reality!)
Therefore, it was not a great start to the car's life from this point of view. Which is a shame, as it seems the car is very good when it works.
Also, I think it is a little unfair to criticise the journalists for "creating" a negative image of the car. They can only report what they find.
Then, a number of customer cars stopped working as well.
Now the problem(s) that led to all of this may be easy to fix, but the knock on affect, as proved in the threads on this car, is that many people now have a negative perception of the car's reliability (enhanced perhaps by the reliability records of ALFA models of the past). Whether people are right or wrong to have this perception is a pointless argument as they have that perception and ultimately, that is all that matters. (Forget reality!)
Therefore, it was not a great start to the car's life from this point of view. Which is a shame, as it seems the car is very good when it works.
Also, I think it is a little unfair to criticise the journalists for "creating" a negative image of the car. They can only report what they find.
Evening all!
I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
PH seems to like making a big deal about minor things on Italian cars, the Abarth 124 had a similarly strange review. It's extremely irritating. The Giulia has very few minor issues on the face of it and we should be grateful it exists.
I'm not quite sure what the problem is in this superb looking well specified car that generates 295 lb ft at 2,000 rpm with only 1,400 RWD kilos to move around. Real world wafting.
German cars don't seem to have the same problem on PH but you have to keep them happy I suppose - to maintain the supply of loaners!
I'm not quite sure what the problem is in this superb looking well specified car that generates 295 lb ft at 2,000 rpm with only 1,400 RWD kilos to move around. Real world wafting.
German cars don't seem to have the same problem on PH but you have to keep them happy I suppose - to maintain the supply of loaners!
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