Speed awareness course....interesting but.....
Discussion
alorotom said:
A chap on my speed awareness course a few years ago started arguing with the AA chap delivering the course about stopping distances and speed and that his 911T with carbon ceramics could o faster and stop quicker than something 'boggo'
He was right but it was received like a cold cup of sick ... and also came across like he was just trying to brag about his wheels in a Considerably Richer then Yow manner
The guy 'proved' that reaction and stoping distances haven't changed in 60 years. He said they still teach the same statistics now as they did then. Tyres, suspension and brakes may have improved, but cars are approx 80% heavier than they were 60 years ago. He was right but it was received like a cold cup of sick ... and also came across like he was just trying to brag about his wheels in a Considerably Richer then Yow manner
I didn't bother to disagree with that as I wanted to pass the course.....
cuprabob said:
Gary29 said:
I'd just sit there quietly and try to get out of there as quickly as possible.
Sounds like a good plan
Nothing worse than having a smart @rse who likes the sound of their own voice making it longer for everyone else.
And yes there was a small gaggle of highly annoying blokes desperately keen to talk about modern brakes / modern tyres / sports suspension / excellent reflexes etc. One pleb even waffled on about how he'd done track days and so could handle a car better than most... Bloody annoying and a waste of others time - nobody except you gives a s
t. IMO the objective of the course is to listen, learn something useful if you can (Coast in my case), repeat back what they've taught you when asked, leave on time or early, put learning into practice so as not to get caught breaking the law again.
If you want to challenge / change the law, then go for it using the democracy we live in - but a speed awareness course is not your forum...
And if you want to declare your wish to carry on breaking the law whilst bragging how many points you already have and the speeds you regularly acheive, I certainly don't want to use my afternoon listening to your rationale because I don't care.
KTF said:
King Herald said:
37 in a 30
"the benefits of speeding, why would you do it?"
I spoke out and said 'for fun, enjoyment, because some people like driving fast'.
30 limits tend to be in a built up area. Using your own reasoning, what fun and enjoyment did you get out of 37 in a 30? "the benefits of speeding, why would you do it?"
I spoke out and said 'for fun, enjoyment, because some people like driving fast'.
He asked for reasons WHY some people speed. I gave him a reason.
Was I wrong? Seriously???
Does anybody here drive faster than they legally should because they actually enjoy driving fast, or do they all exceed the speed limit simply because they are in a hurry to get somewhere? The latter was the only reason he would accept.
As I have stated, I got caught because of an error, not because 37 mph in a 30 is some cheap thrill.
bobtail4x4 said:
they can fail you if you dont join in
He asked what people thought they needed to do to pass the course, and participating was one of the things on the list, as well as being on time, being sober, and staying for the whole four hoursHis closing line was "all those who have passed the course will receive mail from the county council telling them....blah blah" which sort of indicated there could be failures.....
I know some people sat still and didn't say a single word for the whole four hours.
King Herald said:
He asked what people thought they needed to do to pass the course, and participating was one of the things on the list, as well as being on time, being sober, and staying for the whole four hours
His closing line was "all those who have passed the course will receive mail from the county council telling them....blah blah" which sort of indicated there could be failures.....
I know some people sat still and didn't say a single word for the whole four hours.
I'd put money on them all having 'passed' I've never been on one myself (as I'm a perfect driver obviously!) but I've never heard of anyone having ever 'failed'His closing line was "all those who have passed the course will receive mail from the county council telling them....blah blah" which sort of indicated there could be failures.....
I know some people sat still and didn't say a single word for the whole four hours.
My point was it would be pointless trying to argue the case for speeding to a bloke who's job it is to try and limit everyone's speed, it's like arguing with a woman, you'll never win.
King Herald said:
Does anybody here drive faster than they legally should because they actually enjoy driving fast, or do they all exceed the speed limit simply because they are in a hurry to get somewhere? The latter was the only reason he would accept.
Do you think people who do more than 70 on the motorways are doing so because they enjoy driving fast or is it because they are trying to get to wherever they are going quicker?What about people who drive at 40 through residential areas? Is that also fun or are they just wanting to get to wherever they are going quicker?
Gary29 said:
'
My point was it would be pointless trying to argue the case for speeding to a bloke who's job it is to try and limit everyone's speed, it's like arguing with a woman, you'll never win.
Oh, defiantly. My point was it would be pointless trying to argue the case for speeding to a bloke who's job it is to try and limit everyone's speed, it's like arguing with a woman, you'll never win.
One of our number did point out (during tea break, very quietly) that actually teaching that course must be mind numbingly boring, and frustrating. We never actually had any pro-speeding advocates in our class, but the guy got rather defensive whenever anybody even touched on the idea the speed cameras might be simply revenue making machines. He obviously firmly believes the message he is putting across.
I wouldn't say I exactly enjoyed doing the course, but it was definitely interesting in places. And I can now tell what speed limits are even if there are no obvious signs. I think.....
King Herald said:
I spoke out and said 'for fun, enjoyment, because some people like driving fast'.
He wouldn't accept that, struck it off the list?! All he would allow on his 'list' was "to get there quicker".
I find that a little narrow minded, a little obtuse, naive even, on a course that is supposed to be all about teaching people why they should not speed.
But that's exactly the argument I use when people complain about people overtaking.He wouldn't accept that, struck it off the list?! All he would allow on his 'list' was "to get there quicker".
I find that a little narrow minded, a little obtuse, naive even, on a course that is supposed to be all about teaching people why they should not speed.
They often state something like "this guy overtook me - but then I caught him up at the next set of lights - so he didn't get there any quicker".
But that assumes the reason for his overtake was to get there quicker. For the average journey - overtaking will actually gain you very little time, however it can make the journey a lot more enjoyable, especially if the person you overtook was overly hesitant, constantly on the brakes, doing significantly less than the speed limit etc.
I would agree that it's a very narrow minded view to take - people speed for all sorts of reasons. Because they find driving fast fun and enjoyable is as valid a reason why somebody might want to speed as "trying to get there quicker" is.
KTF said:
Do you think people who do more than 70 on the motorways are doing so because they enjoy driving fast or is it because they are trying to get to wherever they are going quicker?
What about people who drive at 40 through residential areas? Is that also fun or are they just wanting to get to wherever they are going quicker?
Why are you adding caveats that weren't in the original question? How are they in anyway relevent to that question, it's answer and the response to that answer?What about people who drive at 40 through residential areas? Is that also fun or are they just wanting to get to wherever they are going quicker?
Moonhawk said:
I would agree that it's a very narrow minded view to take - people speed for all sorts of reasons. Because they find driving fast fun and enjoyable is as valid a reason why somebody might want to speed as "trying to get there quicker" is.
Plus, why would they build small family cars that do 130 mph, or big fast cars and bikes that do well over 150 mph, if driving fast was not part of the whole driving experience? I would wager that a huge percentage of people drive over the limit, whenever they don't think they will get caught. And it isn't because they are in a hurry.
King Herald said:
The guy 'proved' that reaction and stoping distances haven't changed in 60 years. He said they still teach the same statistics now as they did then. Tyres, suspension and brakes may have improved, but cars are approx 80% heavier than they were 60 years ago.
It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
dcb said:
King Herald said:
The guy 'proved' that reaction and stoping distances haven't changed in 60 years. He said they still teach the same statistics now as they did then. Tyres, suspension and brakes may have improved, but cars are approx 80% heavier than they were 60 years ago.
It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
Have I missed an update?
dcb said:
It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.
The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
It is simply pointless arguing though, comparing an 800kg Ford Pop, with drum brakes and crossplies, to a 1200kg 4 wheel disc brakes Golf, with 8" wide modern rubber.........The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
He also stated that ABS is not a braking aid, but a steering aid, to let drivers steer their way out of trouble in an emergency. They did push that on TV for a while, but the ability to stop without locking up all four on a wet motorway has little to do with steering, so it is a braking aid in my opinion. Not many people try to steer their out of braking trouble, in my limited experience.
King Herald said:
dcb said:
It's the promotion of obvious fallacies like this that really get my goat.
The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
It is simply pointless arguing though, comparing an 800kg Ford Pop, with drum brakes and crossplies, to a 1200kg 4 wheel disc brakes Golf, with 8" wide modern rubber.........The idea that the stopping distances are fixed for decades, however much cars
and driver quality change is simply shoddy Government.
UK Gov should be out there measuring real stopping distances every ten years and setting
new more realistic numbers for new drivers to learn.
The current method of just repeating stale information has nothing to do with a rational measured
evidence based approach.
He also stated that ABS is not a braking aid, but a steering aid, to let drivers steer their way out of trouble in an emergency. They did push that on TV for a while, but the ability to stop without locking up all four on a wet motorway has little to do with steering, so it is a braking aid in my opinion. Not many people try to steer their out of braking trouble, in my limited experience.
meehaja said:
The guy who did mine was really good. He had a sensible, mature approach to speeding and driving in general. He told us that he wasn't going to say don't speed, as we all would, maybe not straight away but everyone does, he told us instead to make sure that speeding was an informed choice, not a default state. If you want to do 37 in a 30, do it knowing that the risks are high, if someone steps out you probably won't be able to stop and you'll probably kill them, if you've considered all that and feel it is safe to continue then you can make that choice, the danger is people casually doing 40-45 in a 30 without even realising it.
the people doing 45 in a 30 will not get a course, these courses are bullst , the vans there to catch you out pre 40mph sign so no one is normally about as it's the edge of the village.the courses are a joke and the van placements are a joke.
that's all I have to say on the matter.
the people on the courses are not the real offenders :-(
why not put a camera van near a school at 3pm or some thing !!
KTF said:
Do you think people who do more than 70 on the motorways are doing so because they enjoy driving fast or is it because they are trying to get to wherever they are going quicker?
What about people who drive at 40 through residential areas? Is that also fun or are they just wanting to get to wherever they are going quicker?
Not even worthy of an answer!!! What about people who drive at 40 through residential areas? Is that also fun or are they just wanting to get to wherever they are going quicker?
King Herald said:
Or did I simply misunderstand the question/whole point of this course?
The point of the course is to avoid getting failed and getting points so you just nod and agree then bail as soon as you can, preferably wheel-spinning out of the car park*.* - last bit is a joke if you're a Guardian journo looking for a story.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff