RE: Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S manual: PH Heroes
Discussion
"Fortunately the era of the single-clutch 'auto' 'box is almost at an end. Maserati has killed it in the GranTurismo, leaving the soon-to-die Aston V8 Vantage as its last significant performance car application."
Doesn't the Lambo Aventador still use a single clutch automated manual? And Pagani as well?
Doesn't the Lambo Aventador still use a single clutch automated manual? And Pagani as well?
.I am a diehard 3-pedal and a gear lever guy. So much so that the Vanquish is the only car I've ever truly lusted after that wasn't offered with a conventional manual 'box. I am privileged to own a 2005 Vanquish S. It is truly deserving of its iconic status -- it's an epic car, and of course it's the last Aston to be built in the old Newport Pagnell factory. (The continuation DB4 GT is a different thing altogether.) About the gearbox...
There are many reasons that the 'box got a bad reputation, much of which is down to its being one of the first paddle-shift systems on the market. However, it was extensively updated and improved over the years. It still has quirks and idiosyncrasies but, as others here have said, when it is fully updated and -- this is crucial -- properly set up by someone who knows how, it works very well and is very enjoyable to use. It will never change gear as quickly as a dual-clutch 'box. So what -- they're not new cars, and ultra-fast gear changes isn't the point now. Here's what I like: As a fully committed manual fan, the old single-clutch Vanquish system requires real input from the driver to get the best out of it, to get it to work really well, to get perfectly smooth changes. I LOVE that, because you get back much (not all) of the involvement of using a gear lever and clutch pedal. You have to learn the car, time the paddle pull and that slight lift of the throttle, and there is great satisfaction in understanding the system and using it well. To be sure, if Aston offered a manual from new it's what I'd choose, but this car was designed for the paddle system and, to me, it's part of the Vanquish experience. Epic car.
There are many reasons that the 'box got a bad reputation, much of which is down to its being one of the first paddle-shift systems on the market. However, it was extensively updated and improved over the years. It still has quirks and idiosyncrasies but, as others here have said, when it is fully updated and -- this is crucial -- properly set up by someone who knows how, it works very well and is very enjoyable to use. It will never change gear as quickly as a dual-clutch 'box. So what -- they're not new cars, and ultra-fast gear changes isn't the point now. Here's what I like: As a fully committed manual fan, the old single-clutch Vanquish system requires real input from the driver to get the best out of it, to get it to work really well, to get perfectly smooth changes. I LOVE that, because you get back much (not all) of the involvement of using a gear lever and clutch pedal. You have to learn the car, time the paddle pull and that slight lift of the throttle, and there is great satisfaction in understanding the system and using it well. To be sure, if Aston offered a manual from new it's what I'd choose, but this car was designed for the paddle system and, to me, it's part of the Vanquish experience. Epic car.
I owned an early Vanquish for 4 years, the car had all the gearbox modifications and software updates that the factory provided for paddle shift cars. It was a joy to drive.. Why on earth would anyone wish to change their own gears on a big luxury GT car.
It was always a sense of occasion when out driving the Vanquish.
It was always a sense of occasion when out driving the Vanquish.
Totally agree. The Vanquish suffered from a perennial Aston Martin issue of funding. Whilst the robotized manual was the same as that used by Ferrari they skimped on paying MM for the electronics. This led to issues if abused, the most prevalent was the gradual bending of the wires used to sense the gear selector position.
The other issue was JC and Top Gear.
Treat it with respect when setting off and coming to a halt and the Vanquish is a joy. I love it. Warts and all.
The other issue was JC and Top Gear.
Treat it with respect when setting off and coming to a halt and the Vanquish is a joy. I love it. Warts and all.
Edited by V8LM on Thursday 10th August 06:52
It seems that this is how they probably should have been from the factory, a proper analogue gearbox for an analogue car.
It might just be me, but this generation of Aston and those the immediately follow it (AMV8, DB9 and DBS), seem to be the sweet spot. Modern Aston Martins seem a little gaudy and the loss of the big V12 manual GT car seems something of a crying shame.
It might just be me, but this generation of Aston and those the immediately follow it (AMV8, DB9 and DBS), seem to be the sweet spot. Modern Aston Martins seem a little gaudy and the loss of the big V12 manual GT car seems something of a crying shame.
I take umbrage with something in this article. The fact that the Vanquish was the highlight of the awful Die Another Day.
I feel that needs to be followed up with the fact that the invisibility feature of the car was clearly the low point of the movie too. So the Vanquish was both the high and low point of what is generally a pretty dire movie. It's Schrodinger's bond car I guess.
I feel that needs to be followed up with the fact that the invisibility feature of the car was clearly the low point of the movie too. So the Vanquish was both the high and low point of what is generally a pretty dire movie. It's Schrodinger's bond car I guess.
Mike335i said:
It might just be me, but this generation of Aston and those the immediately follow it (AMV8, DB9 and DBS), seem to be the sweet spot. Modern Aston Martins seem a little gaudy and the loss of the big V12 manual GT car seems something of a crying shame.
Agreed entirely - every time I see an AM product from 2012 onwards, maybe even a little older than that, I can't get on with it visually. Something doesn't attract in the same way as the gorgeous simplicity of the DB9 et al. For me the sweet spot was always the original Vanquish discussed here; utterly beguiling and every bit the British brutus.You know something is wrong when Zagato are capable of producing prettier cars than AM nowadays.
MarJay said:
I take umbrage with something in this article. The fact that the Vanquish was the highlight of the awful Die Another Day.
I feel that needs to be followed up with the fact that the invisibility feature of the car was clearly the low point of the movie too.
I counter that with the genius idea of using the ejector seat to flip the car back onto its wheels!I feel that needs to be followed up with the fact that the invisibility feature of the car was clearly the low point of the movie too.
Speedraser said:
I am a diehard 3-pedal and a gear lever guy. So much so that the Vanquish is the only car I've ever truly lusted after that wasn't offered with a conventional manual 'box. I am privileged to own a 2005 Vanquish S. It is truly deserving of its iconic status -- it's an epic car, and of course it's the last Aston to be built in the old Newport Pagnell factory. (The continuation DB4 GT is a different thing altogether.) About the gearbox...
There are many reasons that the 'box got a bad reputation, much of which is down to its being one of the first paddle-shift systems on the market. However, it was extensively updated and improved over the years. It still has quirks and idiosyncrasies but, as others here have said, when it is fully updated and -- this is crucial -- properly set up by someone who knows how, it works very well and is very enjoyable to use. It will never change gear as quickly as a dual-clutch 'box. So what -- they're not new cars, and ultra-fast gear changes isn't the point now. Here's what I like: As a fully committed manual fan, the old single-clutch Vanquish system requires real input from the driver to get the best out of it, to get it to work really well, to get perfectly smooth changes. I LOVE that, because you get back much (not all) of the involvement of using a gear lever and clutch pedal. You have to learn the car, time the paddle pull and that slight lift of the throttle, and there is great satisfaction in understanding the system and using it well. To be sure, if Aston offered a manual from new it's what I'd choose, but this car was designed for the paddle system and, to me, it's part of the Vanquish experience. Epic car.
Nailed the opinion.There are many reasons that the 'box got a bad reputation, much of which is down to its being one of the first paddle-shift systems on the market. However, it was extensively updated and improved over the years. It still has quirks and idiosyncrasies but, as others here have said, when it is fully updated and -- this is crucial -- properly set up by someone who knows how, it works very well and is very enjoyable to use. It will never change gear as quickly as a dual-clutch 'box. So what -- they're not new cars, and ultra-fast gear changes isn't the point now. Here's what I like: As a fully committed manual fan, the old single-clutch Vanquish system requires real input from the driver to get the best out of it, to get it to work really well, to get perfectly smooth changes. I LOVE that, because you get back much (not all) of the involvement of using a gear lever and clutch pedal. You have to learn the car, time the paddle pull and that slight lift of the throttle, and there is great satisfaction in understanding the system and using it well. To be sure, if Aston offered a manual from new it's what I'd choose, but this car was designed for the paddle system and, to me, it's part of the Vanquish experience. Epic car.
It's the oddities that make the AM desirable ; the way of mastering something and trying something different
.e600 said:
I owned an early Vanquish for 4 years, the car had all the gearbox modifications and software updates that the factory provided for paddle shift cars. It was a joy to drive.. Why on earth would anyone wish to change their own gears on a big luxury GT car.
It was always a sense of occasion when out driving the Vanquish.
Speaking my opinion there. But I'll be honest ; years ago I was a 3 pedal man and nothing else; I almost converted my XJR to a manual. But dick length and bravadery (i.e what people perceive to be proper cars due to presenters convincing them otherwise) will dictate matters. As well as speculators.It was always a sense of occasion when out driving the Vanquish.
Gman77 said:
"Fortunately the era of the single-clutch 'auto' 'box is almost at an end. Maserati has killed it in the GranTurismo, leaving the soon-to-die Aston V8 Vantage as its last significant performance car application."
Doesn't the Lambo Aventador still use a single clutch automated manual? And Pagani as well?
They do have one clutch but the gearbox internals are different. Here's a small write-up which explains it: http://blog.caranddriver.com/techy-goodness-a-deep...Doesn't the Lambo Aventador still use a single clutch automated manual? And Pagani as well?
So what involves the original paddle gearbox being 'properly set up'? Software changes I'd imagine but hardware changes too perhaps? Different programming?
I adore the Vanquish, as said it was perhaps the only good thing about Die Another Day (well, Halle Berry and Rosamund Pike help) and it's a glorious looking and sounding thing.
I adore the Vanquish, as said it was perhaps the only good thing about Die Another Day (well, Halle Berry and Rosamund Pike help) and it's a glorious looking and sounding thing.
Armen said:
Then I remembered this video filmed by Aston Martin Works (Newport Pagnell, where the Vanquish was built between 2001 and 2007) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFZ163jnIhY
Curious that they went to the effort of making a promotional video for the manual conversion, describing how good it is, then completely failed to show it in action in the video. Other than a couple of seconds at the start of the video, there's not a gearstick in sight, just a guy in a suit telling us how good it is, while his hand operates the lever out of shot. Bizarre.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFZ163jnIhY
Lovely car though.
At some point I would love to own a manual DBS. The problem is there are many better cars for the same role (GT car) and a GT car should, ideally, be automatic.
Not to mention they are appreciating so by the time I get round to one it would be cheaper to buy a Ferrari FF or even possibly an F12 by the time the 812 has been out a while. There is just no beating a Ferrari V12 and their gearboxes imo.
I have driven the auto dbs, I didn't like the gearbox.
Not to mention they are appreciating so by the time I get round to one it would be cheaper to buy a Ferrari FF or even possibly an F12 by the time the 812 has been out a while. There is just no beating a Ferrari V12 and their gearboxes imo.
I have driven the auto dbs, I didn't like the gearbox.
twoblacklines said:
At some point I would love to own a manual DBS. The problem is there are many better cars for the same role (GT car) and a GT car should, ideally, be automatic.
Why? It's not as though a manual gearbox is hard to use. Cross continent touring works very well with a manual box. An auto has an advantage in traffic, but I GT car is ideally not suited to that either! Mike335i said:
Why? It's not as though a manual gearbox is hard to use. Cross continent touring works very well with a manual box. An auto has an advantage in traffic, but I GT car is ideally not suited to that either!
Because cross continental normally involves cities and traffic jams / roadworks?
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