Discussion
Zetec-S said:
I'd love it if they made an "RS Mondeo" - RWD and the same V8 as in the Mustang 
Trouble is it would probably cost more than a Mustang, and getting on towards 'M' car territory. So they'd only sell a handful. Either that or to keep the cost competitive they'd have to sell at a loss. I'm sure neither option is in line with their "corporate goals".
would it need to cost that much? how much is/was vxr insignia (or equivalent)Trouble is it would probably cost more than a Mustang, and getting on towards 'M' car territory. So they'd only sell a handful. Either that or to keep the cost competitive they'd have to sell at a loss. I'm sure neither option is in line with their "corporate goals".
theplayingmantis said:
whats the us fast 4 door ford
I'm sure they get a lukewarm Taurus these days, not sure if a V8 version exists. That said Americans seem hung up on F150s and the like; which I doubt would have much commercial success in most of Britain. Ford hasn't been doing this only a few years; they cater to markets based on the perceived requirements of the landscape and have been able to in many cases steer demand as they see fit (hence the rise in fast hatches as opposed to saloons here, I expect).In Oz there appear to be a couple of popular choices other than Holdens, the Ford Falcon being one.
theplayingmantis said:
Zetec-S said:
I'd love it if they made an "RS Mondeo" - RWD and the same V8 as in the Mustang
Trouble is it would probably cost more than a Mustang, and getting on towards 'M' car territory. So they'd only sell a handful. Either that or to keep the cost competitive they'd have to sell at a loss. I'm sure neither option is in line with their "corporate goals".
would it need to cost that much? how much is/was vxr insignia (or equivalent)Trouble is it would probably cost more than a Mustang, and getting on towards 'M' car territory. So they'd only sell a handful. Either that or to keep the cost competitive they'd have to sell at a loss. I'm sure neither option is in line with their "corporate goals".
I'm a big fan of Ford's, but even I would struggle to justify paying that sort of money.
theplayingmantis said:
jsf said:
theplayingmantis said:
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?
I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
The Escort Cosworth was built on the Sierra platform, not the FWD escort platform. When the original UK focus came out it was smaller, but the USA version was about the size of the Escort Cosworth, they then went to a world platform that is the same size of the US spec car, its bigger than it looks.
When we ran a Group A Sapphire, we reshelled that into an Escort Cosworth, then we looked at reshelling that into a Focus (the original UK one), but decided not too because it was heavier!
theplayingmantis said:
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?
I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
Arguably today's Focus is pretty similar in size to a Sierra and aimed largely at the same demographic and the same use. It's just a slightly different shape.
And remember the Mondeo might be a full size UK Ford. But the Jaguar X-Type was built on the same platform and was known as the "baby" Jaguar.
The original Mondeo was also sold in the USA and most certainly was not considered a full size car over there.
I know what you are getting at. But today's Focus ST and RS are perfect equals for yesteryears Cosworths.
theplayingmantis said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
Going from the thread title, there are several current UK models that fall into that grouping, Mustang, Focus RS, GT etc. Not sure what saloon style cars are available in the US at present?
im talking about the man on the streets family car. yes appreciate the focus fill that gap but i mean the mondeo/sierra model the flagship model for want of a better word. an ordinary car made fast, a mondeo rs is such a thing existedThe Mondeo ST models were on par with any of the other bigger Fords from eras past that you seem to mentioning.
And remember the RS moniker mostly was used on smaller models. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
300bhp/ton said:
. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
Actually it was because Stuart Turner pulled the plug on the RS1700t and then Group B got banned killing the RS200's career, so they had to go racing with something......300bhp/ton said:
As others have said. Past models existed for competition homoligation. Today there is no need, so they don't exist. Such models need to be profitable in their own right.
The Mondeo ST models were on par with any of the other bigger Fords from eras past that you seem to mentioning.
And remember the RS moniker mostly was used on smaller models. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
The RS1700T was a MK3 escort platform RWD group B car, they dropped that because AWD became the obvious requirement when the quarto arrived, which led to the RS200.The Mondeo ST models were on par with any of the other bigger Fords from eras past that you seem to mentioning.
And remember the RS moniker mostly was used on smaller models. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
Its agreat idea, another fast 4 door Ford but that ship has sailed for the Ford brand and theres no way they could knock one out at anything like 40k, look at what its competition would be, C63, M3 (5 at a push) RS4 (RS6 at a push) the new Guilia QV, all north of 50 and all far more desirable than a large hot Ford .... they know their markets and they are doing well in them, they aren't afraid to push out uber product, look at the new GT car .....
jsf said:
300bhp/ton said:
As others have said. Past models existed for competition homoligation. Today there is no need, so they don't exist. Such models need to be profitable in their own right.
The Mondeo ST models were on par with any of the other bigger Fords from eras past that you seem to mentioning.
And remember the RS moniker mostly was used on smaller models. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
The RS1700T was a MK3 escort platform RWD group B car, they dropped that because AWD became the obvious requirement when the quarto arrived, which led to the RS200.The Mondeo ST models were on par with any of the other bigger Fords from eras past that you seem to mentioning.
And remember the RS moniker mostly was used on smaller models. The fact it ends up on a Sierra was mostly down to the fact the MK3 Escort was fwd and a poor basis for a competition car.
theplayingmantis said:
whats the us fast 4 door ford
Focus ST or RS. Or a Raptor. http://www.ford.com
Look under performance.
That said he Fusion and Taurus can probably be ordered with pokey enough engines. They just are performance orientated.
We're simply in another generation now or a new generation, if you will. Hot-hatches are not what they once were, back in the day. They wouldn't work in today's cars either as they wouldn't be particularly hot. I know you specifically stated "not hatchbacks" but isn't that what Ford is known for and good at?
Regardless though, what's wrong with the MK7 Fiesta ST? I'd class that as potentially the best modern hot-hatch out there, alongside the Megane 265/275. IMO, it re-creates the fizz from the old-school formula with all the creature comforts of today's world. It's not too much to make the car stupidly fiddly and complex but just enough to make it interesting.
I don't wish to discuss the latest Focus RS, due to a particular ongoing thread, which relates to a water-based creature with eight arms. But, there is that. I don't see why there won't be a performance-badged Mondeo in the future, especially with Vauxhall re-launching their GSI range.
Regardless though, what's wrong with the MK7 Fiesta ST? I'd class that as potentially the best modern hot-hatch out there, alongside the Megane 265/275. IMO, it re-creates the fizz from the old-school formula with all the creature comforts of today's world. It's not too much to make the car stupidly fiddly and complex but just enough to make it interesting.
I don't wish to discuss the latest Focus RS, due to a particular ongoing thread, which relates to a water-based creature with eight arms. But, there is that. I don't see why there won't be a performance-badged Mondeo in the future, especially with Vauxhall re-launching their GSI range.
Edited by culpz on Monday 21st August 16:21
jsf said:
The RS1700T was a MK3 escort platform RWD group B car, they dropped that because AWD became the obvious requirement when the quarto arrived, which led to the RS200.
The RS1700T wasn't exactly a regular production MK3 platform in line with the rest of the range. And I don't recall it enjoying much success. It says a lot when the better option is to go for a much bigger heavier as the preferred competition car. Which is exactly what the RS500 was. M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
jsf said:
theplayingmantis said:
M-SportMatt said:
theplayingmantis said:
Will there ever be another one?
I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
So you're not on about hatches.....but then quote two hatches....Sierra RS Cosworth is a hatch ( saph was the later saloon ) and the mondeo is a hatch.I grew up with my old man buying german import mark ii grenadas, that had been made fast. before that and my time he had sport cortinas (not sure if thats a contradiction). and would have liked to carry on the tradition one day.
I dont know too much of the heritage of fast fords, but i do know they don't make them anymore (im not talking hot hatches or muscle cars)
will we ever see the likes of a Sierra RS Cosworth again? could a RS mondeo be a thing ever?
the last full size car that could be described as such was variations of the Falcon down under i think. thats now been canned.
its sad
The Focus RS is the current Fast Ford...or the Mustang depending on your point of view.....
i clearly quote full size car. i consider a focus a hot hatch. to compare it to a rs cosworth is just silly,
The Escort Cosworth was built on the Sierra platform, not the FWD escort platform. When the original UK focus came out it was smaller, but the USA version was about the size of the Escort Cosworth, they then went to a world platform that is the same size of the US spec car, its bigger than it looks.
When we ran a Group A Sapphire, we reshelled that into an Escort Cosworth, then we looked at reshelling that into a Focus (the original UK one), but decided not too because it was heavier!
300bhp/ton said:
theplayingmantis said:
whats the us fast 4 door ford
Focus ST or RS. Or a Raptor. http://www.ford.com
Look under performance.
That said he Fusion and Taurus can probably be ordered with pokey enough engines. They just are performance orientated.
2.7 twin turbo V6 AWD with 325hp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_(Ameri...
Zetec-S said:
They ended production of the Falcon in the last year or so, I think now they get the same choice of models as we do.
Oh fair enough - I expect Holden holds the lion's share of saloon sales now. Don't blame them, although it'd be a Maloo for me personally!theplayingmantis said:
i bet your popular at parties!
- you're
300bhp/ton said:
Ford Fusion Sport.
2.7 twin turbo V6 AWD with 325hp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_(Ameri...
Nice engine2.7 twin turbo V6 AWD with 325hp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_(Ameri...
[Pedant] But not 'Full Sized' [/Pedant]
300bhp/ton said:
jsf said:
The RS1700T was a MK3 escort platform RWD group B car, they dropped that because AWD became the obvious requirement when the quarto arrived, which led to the RS200.
The RS1700T wasn't exactly a regular production MK3 platform in line with the rest of the range. And I don't recall it enjoying much success. It says a lot when the better option is to go for a much bigger heavier as the preferred competition car. Which is exactly what the RS500 was. The RS500 was the Group A sierra homologation version for circuit racing that came after Group B was banned. The regular homologation Group N and Group A Sierra was the rally homologation version used.
The reason the RS1700T wasn't used was nothing to do with the RS500 at all, or it being a better car, it wasn't. It was all to do with how Group B evolved into an AWD only requirement if you wanted to be competitive and the fact Group B was then banned by the FIA, which made the RS200 unusable on international events.
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