RE: Dodge Viper GTS: Spotted
Discussion
From time to time a friend, acquaintance, or former colleague in Europe pops over (here to the US). Some are into motors, so I toss them the fob and we go for a ride.
I don't have a Viper, but the LS-series V8, which I do have, delivers the remarkable wave of low-end torque that defines a classical Yank pushrod experience.
Some of these guys are accustomed solely to high-revving engines with relatively large DOHC heads -- powerplants that generate most of their push from mid- to high-end.
With the LS on tap.... Occasionally there is a quasi-religious experience behind the wheel. The linear character of acceleration -- immediate and continuous, as if the car is affixed to the front of a massive locomotive -- can be a delightful surprise.
A few years ago, there was a nappy advert on television (both sides of the Atlantic). They used high-speed cameras to capture the facial expressions of infants as they supposedly experienced, in real time, a poo. Amusing, existential, and all that.
The expressions of surprise on those infant faces remind me a bit of one or two European blokes on partial throttle for the first time in a pushrod V8.
.
Exhibit A: surprise in real time
I don't have a Viper, but the LS-series V8, which I do have, delivers the remarkable wave of low-end torque that defines a classical Yank pushrod experience.
Some of these guys are accustomed solely to high-revving engines with relatively large DOHC heads -- powerplants that generate most of their push from mid- to high-end.
With the LS on tap.... Occasionally there is a quasi-religious experience behind the wheel. The linear character of acceleration -- immediate and continuous, as if the car is affixed to the front of a massive locomotive -- can be a delightful surprise.
A few years ago, there was a nappy advert on television (both sides of the Atlantic). They used high-speed cameras to capture the facial expressions of infants as they supposedly experienced, in real time, a poo. Amusing, existential, and all that.
The expressions of surprise on those infant faces remind me a bit of one or two European blokes on partial throttle for the first time in a pushrod V8.
.
Exhibit A: surprise in real time
Edited by unsprung on Wednesday 15th November 19:22
RumbleOfThunder said:
P.Griffin said:
DS1086 said:
P.Griffin said:
I'm no engineer, but how, even with help from McLaren, does such a huge engine only kick out 645 hp?
645hp from 8.4 litres is 76.8hp per litre, which is pretty impressive compared to Mercedes' 302hp from 5.0l, equivalent to 60hp per litre.Porsche GT3 125 hp per litre
Ferrari 458 127 hp per litre
I'm not knocking the car itself, horses for courses (pardon the pun) and all that. It just seems to me a very lazy and unsophisticated way of extracting respectable horse power.
Edited by P.Griffin on Wednesday 15th November 14:21
P.Griffin said:
I'm no engineer, but how, even with help from McLaren, does such a huge engine only kick out 645 hp?
In typical American fashion it's not a high revving engine, it's a pushrod 2 vavle per cylinder design . This is good for mid range torque but means not ideal for high revs , it redlines under 6500. To achieve high specific power output anywhere near or over 100 bhp/ litre you need good airflow at high revs over 7.5 - 8k . This can't be achieved with a pushrod valvetrain. 76bhp / litre is not bad... The characteristics of this engine mean you get an instant shove in the back from low revs even in high gear.
The other advantage of an OHV pushrod design is that they can be much lighter , this all alloy V10 is very light for its size ( under 300kg dry ) . So it's power : Litre might not be amazing but the power:weight of the actual engine is very good.
The other advantage is the engine is much lower in height which means lower centre of gravity and a much lower bonnet, which benefit aero and handling. Look at this Viper and the Corvette's bonnet line- very low .
Edited by akashzimzimma on Wednesday 15th November 22:23
I'd say that's an impressively broad, flat torque curve by any standard. The later Viper engines are actually quite clever and employed some concentric cam arrangement to allow variable valve timing on a cam in block pushrod engine. It may not rev to 9k but it's not the crude engine some would have you believe.
RobDown said:
I know I shouldn't love these things, all straight line brute force, no handling. But I still really want one
They handle great! What they lose in ultimate precision and feedback to cars like 911's, in my relatively unskilled hands they make up for in FR forgiveness; they are great fun to drive and if tracks are your thing the ACR will out corner just about anything money can buy! https://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives...
Sorry guys, the car is sold and has been for a little while. Also, it is a 2013 Launch Edition, number 41of 150. The reason it shows as a 2015 is because the car was never registered in the US and so was registered brand new in the U.K. in 2015. Also, price new was $140,490.
It really was quite entertaining reading people’s comments about my car. Suffice to say that if you ever got to drive one, you’d want one.
Quick picture below (courtesy of Tartan Tarmac) of her on a runway on the way to 180mph (0-60 in 3.8 seconds) and one of the “missing” commemorative plaque.
It really was quite entertaining reading people’s comments about my car. Suffice to say that if you ever got to drive one, you’d want one.
Quick picture below (courtesy of Tartan Tarmac) of her on a runway on the way to 180mph (0-60 in 3.8 seconds) and one of the “missing” commemorative plaque.
Edited by NoPaddleShiftForMe on Thursday 16th November 21:16
P.Griffin said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Ok I think P.Griffin has been told enough now. 
....thanks for the lesson guys. I'm happy to admit I have learnt something.In regard to the latest Porsche GT cars, the GT3RS lapped it in 1:33.29. However, the correct Viper to compare to that is the Viper ACR extreme which has the same engine but more aero (like the GT3RS) and it lapped it in 1:28.65 which is significantly faster than the GT3RS and faster than both the Porsche 918 Spyder and McLaren P1.
All in all, not a bad little engine, particularly when you consider all of those other cars have dual clutch flappy paddle gearboxes and the viper is a traditional six speed manual.
Edited by NoPaddleShiftForMe on Thursday 16th November 23:22
NoPaddleShiftForMe said:
P.Griffin said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Ok I think P.Griffin has been told enough now.
....thanks for the lesson guys. I'm happy to admit I have learnt something.In regard to the latest Porsche GT cars, the GT3RS lapped it in 1:33.29. However, the correct Viper to compare to that is the Viper ACR extreme which has the same engine but more aero (like the GT3RS) and it lapped it in 1:28.65 which is significantly faster than the GT3RS and faster than both the Porsche 918 Spyder and McLaren P1.
All in all, not a bad little engine, particularly when you consider all of those other cars have dual clutch flappy paddle gearboxes and the viper is a traditional six speed manual.
Edited by NoPaddleShiftForMe on Thursday 16th November 23:22
There are some speed charts comparing the Laguna Seca laps between IIRC the P1 918 and the Viper ACR-E on a previous thread. The takeaway was that the first two were faster in the straights and the Viper was later braking and faster through the corners with an overall faster lap, A total turnaround from the good in a straight line until you meet a corner troupe.
ETA here it is
ETA here it is
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Friday 17th November 17:19
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