Discussion
NickGibbs said:
NotNormal said:
I'm not saying you made it up, but what I am saying is this persons story you read on a forum is simply not accurate.
That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
Gotta present your bona fides if you're saying 'simply not accurate'. Eg connection with Opel. This is as much true for someone calling BS as it is for someone asking us to believe something. That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
BTW, why should the onus be on someone to prove someone else's unsubstantiated claim wrong, rather than the other way round?
LotusOmega375D said:
NickGibbs said:
NotNormal said:
I'm not saying you made it up, but what I am saying is this persons story you read on a forum is simply not accurate.
That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
Gotta present your bona fides if you're saying 'simply not accurate'. Eg connection with Opel. This is as much true for someone calling BS as it is for someone asking us to believe something. That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
BTW, why should the onus be on someone to prove someone else's unsubstantiated claim wrong, rather than the other way round?
If you've read the book, then say so. If you've got connections at Opel, say so. Just firmly believing something doesn't make a credible case without explaining how you came to believe it.
NickGibbs said:
Because then just get two people saying 'it's true' and 'no it isn't' and that's worthless.
If you've read the book, then say so. If you've got connections at Opel, say so. Just firmly believing something doesn't make a credible case without explaining how you came to believe it.
I've already explained the thought process during the initial conception stage and used Adcock's book as a source. I even included some pictures that might display credence to the fact that the book was open on the appropriate pages when typing. If you've read the book, then say so. If you've got connections at Opel, say so. Just firmly believing something doesn't make a credible case without explaining how you came to believe it.
If you have evidence showing something else then say so.
Cold said:
I've already explained the thought process during the initial conception stage and used Adcock's book as a source. I even included some pictures that might display credence to the fact that the book was open on the appropriate pages when typing.
If you have evidence showing something else then say so.
Wasn't aimed at you! If you have evidence showing something else then say so.
LotusOmega375D said:
NickGibbs said:
NotNormal said:
I'm not saying you made it up, but what I am saying is this persons story you read on a forum is simply not accurate.
That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
Gotta present your bona fides if you're saying 'simply not accurate'. Eg connection with Opel. This is as much true for someone calling BS as it is for someone asking us to believe something. That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.
I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.
No intention to slurr on yourself
BTW, why should the onus be on someone to prove someone else's unsubstantiated claim wrong, rather than the other way round?
Awesome cars, got smoked by one on the A1 once. Rather showed up my Saxo VTR... :-)
B'stard Child said:
The roof line is lengthened the wheel base is the same
You can fit a Senator boot lid on a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator Bonnet will fit a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator propshaft (auto or manual) will fit a Carlton (auto or manual) *manual fit manual auto fit auto obviously
True. I just wanted to highlight that they're basically the same car so all the mechanical bits would swap easily enough from a Lotus Carlton to a Vauxhall/Opel Senator!You can fit a Senator boot lid on a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator Bonnet will fit a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator propshaft (auto or manual) will fit a Carlton (auto or manual) *manual fit manual auto fit auto obviously
The floor between the Lotus and Vauxhall would be different, I think? I mean the transmission tunnel and bits of the back end. But I suppose that wouldn't be too hard for someone who can weld a bit and has space and equipment
NickGibbs said:
Wasn't aimed at you!
Guess it was aimied at me. Wow, first time i've had to come up with a CV to back up a comment on PH!Ok then i'll bite. As a passionate owner for 15 years now i've had the opportunity to read up and talk to many people who actively worked on the project. I have not only worked on my own cars, but many others and have been an active member of the AB club throughout this time so know them inside out. I have friends who work at Vauxhall and I have personally spoken to a number of people who worked on the LC project from Vauxhall and Lotus including test drivers through to the big man, Mike Kimberley himself. All these discussions over the years mean that I have been able to ask a multitude of questions and gleaned a mass if very interesting information about these cars that for most would label me way too geeky about the subject but hey ho. There are so many false stories floating about with these cars, yes it probably goes some way to the air of mystery and adds to the legend of these cars but I try and post some facts on the subject every know and then for those that show interest
As has already been mentioned if you want written evidence you should have a read of the extremely detailed account of the Lotus Carlton from inception through testing and into build written by Ian Adcock. The whole of Chapter 2 (some 16 pages) discusses the Lotus Senator in great depth and simply by reading that alone you can work out that the dates do not stack up as the crossover point to build the very first LC engine (which was cobbled together to try and have it ready for the Geneva launch event) was started some months after the Senator idea was altered to the more perfomance orientated Carlton.
I have seen pics of the prototype cars and they are all based on Omega 3000 vehicles with the engine work done by Lotus (clue is in the name
).Hope that goes a little way to give you some confidence in where i'm basing that statement on.
jmcc500 said:
I don’t know anything about this subject, other than that the prototype I saw in period (driven by a Lotus director to a parent’s evening at the school my dad worked at) was more or less as per production vehicles bar the paint - it was silver rather than imperial green.
Which would ring true as the first three prototype cars were converted Omega 3000 cars in silver, registrations F637 DNG, G729 GEX and G385 KEX. I believe there was also another prototype in red (reg F738 BNG).aaron_2000 said:
thiscocks said:
Would be quite interesting to drive an auto 'LC'. I wonder what auto box it is and whether it is up to the task?
Maybe a Corvette box? Would make sense with both being GM The Corvette box would have been a big engineering task as it would have needed a new bell housing to mate it to the LC block - it's why Lotus has to develop and re-develop 3 bell housing over the production period of the LC to resolve them breaking up
First Version normally failed like this
Jimmy Recard said:
B'stard Child said:
The roof line is lengthened the wheel base is the same
You can fit a Senator boot lid on a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator Bonnet will fit a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator propshaft (auto or manual) will fit a Carlton (auto or manual) *manual fit manual auto fit auto obviously
True. I just wanted to highlight that they're basically the same car so all the mechanical bits would swap easily enough from a Lotus Carlton to a Vauxhall/Opel Senator!You can fit a Senator boot lid on a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator Bonnet will fit a Carlton and vicki verki
Senator propshaft (auto or manual) will fit a Carlton (auto or manual) *manual fit manual auto fit auto obviously
The floor between the Lotus and Vauxhall would be different, I think? I mean the transmission tunnel and bits of the back end. But I suppose that wouldn't be too hard for someone who can weld a bit and has space and equipment
Lotus back end (Subframe, suspension, Driveshaft propshaft and differential all bolts as one complete unit up to existing mounting points
The work on the transmission tunnel for the carlton to take the Corvette Box and custom bell housing wasn't a huge change
It's the area on the lower left side of the tunnel not covered by a heat mat and covered with a dollop of underseal shown above
NotNormal said:
NickGibbs said:
Wasn't aimed at you!
Guess it was aimied at me. Wow, first time i've had to come up with a CV to back up a comment on PH!Ok then i'll bite. As a passionate owner for 15 years now i've had the opportunity to read up and talk to many people who actively worked on the project. I have not only worked on my own cars, but many others and have been an active member of the AB club throughout this time so know them inside out. I have friends who work at Vauxhall and I have personally spoken to a number of people who worked on the LC project from Vauxhall and Lotus including test drivers through to the big man, Mike Kimberley himself. All these discussions over the years mean that I have been able to ask a multitude of questions and gleaned a mass if very interesting information about these cars that for most would label me way too geeky about the subject but hey ho. There are so many false stories floating about with these cars, yes it probably goes some way to the air of mystery and adds to the legend of these cars but I try and post some facts on the subject every know and then for those that show interest
As has already been mentioned if you want written evidence you should have a read of the extremely detailed account of the Lotus Carlton from inception through testing and into build written by Ian Adcock. The whole of Chapter 2 (some 16 pages) discusses the Lotus Senator in great depth and simply by reading that alone you can work out that the dates do not stack up as the crossover point to build the very first LC engine (which was cobbled together to try and have it ready for the Geneva launch event) was started some months after the Senator idea was altered to the more perfomance orientated Carlton.
I have seen pics of the prototype cars and they are all based on Omega 3000 vehicles with the engine work done by Lotus (clue is in the name
).Hope that goes a little way to give you some confidence in where i'm basing that statement on.
When all the pre-production prototypes were finished with they were all speared in several places by fork lift trucks and the remains sold as scrap to a metal dealer who disposed of all Lotus waste.
These cars were picked over by a few of us in the ABS club gathering some useful spares - one complete car was picked completely and the parts were used to build another car which was featured in a magazine article some years later
I can confirm here as I saw them all with my own eyes that all the cars were Carlton bodies - not Senator
NotNormal said:
jmcc500 said:
I don’t know anything about this subject, other than that the prototype I saw in period (driven by a Lotus director to a parent’s evening at the school my dad worked at) was more or less as per production vehicles bar the paint - it was silver rather than imperial green.
Which would ring true as the first three prototype cars were converted Omega 3000 cars in silver, registrations F637 DNG, G729 GEX and G385 KEX. I believe there was also another prototype in red (reg F738 BNG).Jimmy Recard said:
Good point - I forgot that that one was automatic. That would make it even easier and make everything I said irrelevant 
How's your car looking at the moment?
Well it's insured but SORN'd (out of MOT and tax for the winter) and I'm considering getting a few bit's painted in the spring to freshen it up - mechanically it's close to perfect but the paintwork lets it down a little - when it gets used it get's driven hard but maintained better than it should be - probably a run to the Le Mans Classic one last time and then I'm probably gonna stick it up for sale How's your car looking at the moment?
Ran it on a dyno to see what she was pushing out (all the modern cars made very close to book bhp so I've no reason to think the dyno was "optimistic" and it ran out at 401.8 BHP
It got virtually no use last year - no reason to use it and not enough free time to make up excuses to use it!!!!
fesuvious said:
so could one of you clear something up for me then please?
The prototype spec - steering rack, or with the box?
I heard that the spec lotus wanted included a rack, not the box.
True or not?
And if true, which rack was it?
All the prototypes had steering boxes - if any had a rack that equipment would have been liberated PDQThe prototype spec - steering rack, or with the box?
I heard that the spec lotus wanted included a rack, not the box.
True or not?
And if true, which rack was it?
The biggest problems owners have with the "box" is based on two issues - first it hasn't been centered before adjustments made to tracking (Toe in or out) or second it's not had the backlash adjusted since new.
TVR Moneypit said:
Blimey fellas, I didn't want to start a row.
Some people can start a row with themselves in an empty room TVR Moneypit said:
All I was doing was repeating something that seemed credible, that someone else, (the owner of the Lotus Senator), had told me, claiming it was the truth.
Surprised by that James is quite a knowledgable fella and also owns/owned a Lotus CarltonStill lets be honest the Senator wasn't the only car that had LC engine and running gear into it
AFAIK - it's now been broken up for spares to keep other Lotus Carltons on the road - I got to drive it on a track day it was a fecking hoot - the Supra's and Skylines also on track were very confused as it wasn't quick in the corners due to fairly knackered tyres and brakes that could do with some work but show it a straight and they didn't get a sniff of it. The owner refused to open the bonnet until the end of the day - then they all knew what it was
All it needed really was banded 17 inch steels (to clear the brakes) some poverty spec halfrauds wheel trims and a magnetic taxi sign for the roof and it would have been even more fun
B'stard Child said:
AFAIK - it's now been broken up for spares to keep other Lotus Carltons on the road - I got to drive it on a track day it was a fecking hoot - the Supra's and Skylines also on track were very confused as it wasn't quick in the corners due to fairly knackered tyres and brakes that could do with some work but show it a straight and they didn't get a sniff of it. The owner refused to open the bonnet until the end of the day - then they all knew what it was
All it needed really was banded 17 inch steels (to clear the brakes) some poverty spec halfrauds wheel trims and a magnetic taxi sign for the roof and it would have been even more fun
I meant to do that with my Vectra V6 Special but I didn'tAll it needed really was banded 17 inch steels (to clear the brakes) some poverty spec halfrauds wheel trims and a magnetic taxi sign for the roof and it would have been even more fun
I've got to say, the wheels on that Omega give it away for me. It's not like they were optional Omega CDX alloys!
NotNormal said:
NickGibbs said:
Wasn't aimed at you!
Guess it was aimied at me. Wow, first time i've had to come up with a CV to back up a comment on PH!Ok then i'll bite. As a passionate owner for 15 years now i've had the opportunity to read up and talk to many people who actively worked on the project. I have not only worked on my own cars, but many others and have been an active member of the AB club throughout this time so know them inside out. I have friends who work at Vauxhall and I have personally spoken to a number of people who worked on the LC project from Vauxhall and Lotus including test drivers through to the big man, Mike Kimberley himself. All these discussions over the years mean that I have been able to ask a multitude of questions and gleaned a mass if very interesting information about these cars that for most would label me way too geeky about the subject but hey ho. There are so many false stories floating about with these cars, yes it probably goes some way to the air of mystery and adds to the legend of these cars but I try and post some facts on the subject every know and then for those that show interest
As has already been mentioned if you want written evidence you should have a read of the extremely detailed account of the Lotus Carlton from inception through testing and into build written by Ian Adcock. The whole of Chapter 2 (some 16 pages) discusses the Lotus Senator in great depth and simply by reading that alone you can work out that the dates do not stack up as the crossover point to build the very first LC engine (which was cobbled together to try and have it ready for the Geneva launch event) was started some months after the Senator idea was altered to the more perfomance orientated Carlton.
I have seen pics of the prototype cars and they are all based on Omega 3000 vehicles with the engine work done by Lotus (clue is in the name
).Hope that goes a little way to give you some confidence in where i'm basing that statement on.
jmcc500 said:
I don’t know anything about this subject, other than that the prototype I saw in period (driven by a Lotus director to a parent’s evening at the school my dad worked at) was more or less as per production vehicles bar the paint - it was silver rather than imperial green.
Which would ring true as the first three prototype cars were converted Omega 3000 cars in silver, registrations F637 DNG, G729 GEX and G385 KEX. I believe there was also another prototype in red (reg F738 BNG).Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff