Slowest "Performance" Brand Car ?
Discussion
I think most non car folks see a premium brand and performance as being one and the same thing (be it the most basic BMW/Audi/Mercedes or whatever from the company car list or private on a PCP) and would just assume that a BMW would be faster than a Skoda (regardless of whether it was a 316 up against a vRS). So in that respect, I would say that most premium car brands are also the slowest performance car brands too.
austinsmirk said:
Mercedes-benz A180 CDI AMG sport was beaten off the lights to a merge by a Transit Connect
rules of the road are a Labourer in any van: it could be pulling a steamroller, will always beat any vehicle off the lights in a traffic light drag race.
This.rules of the road are a Labourer in any van: it could be pulling a steamroller, will always beat any vehicle off the lights in a traffic light drag race.
Given how most Transits are driven, I give them a wide berth in an M240i.
Mafffew said:
The whole idea of brand dilution is nonsense. Look at what has happened to Porsche since they announced the Cayenne, still producing great sports cars...
Previously, when someone said "I've got a Porsche" you knew they had a sports car. Now you have to ask them what Porsche they have and if they didn't initially say "911, Boxter, Cayman" its usually the crap ones.It might be controversial and heresy, but...
...Most modern cars (and vans) are probably fast enough...
Ok, so 0-60 in 11 seconds is more than double what a fast car can do off the line, but the modern turbo engine provides useful acceleration at dual carriageway speeds without having to drop a few cogs to get the revs up. Traffic light grands prix aren't that common, although I might have witnessed a few in my hot hatch days....
A decent driver can pedal a mid-powered car (with compliant suspension) along A to B on decent roads at a fair lick without anybody (well, anybody concerned about forward visibility) ever trying to overtake them.
Most people rarely venture off busy main roads, though, where drag strip performance is even less of an issue.
It's all about the image for many.
Personally, I'd prefer a reasonably capable car that doesn't draw attention to itself, but a lot of Brits prefer to have the bells and whistles on the outside, rather than inside or under the bonnet, often to the detriment of ride quality, ground clearance and roadholding for the bumpy roads of Britain.
Ps. I'm sure that everybody on here is a smooth, composed, observant, brisk driver....but think about how many/few of your friends, relatives or colleagues are too. Are they better than drivers of 20/30/40 years ago in cars that were half as capable?
...Most modern cars (and vans) are probably fast enough...
Ok, so 0-60 in 11 seconds is more than double what a fast car can do off the line, but the modern turbo engine provides useful acceleration at dual carriageway speeds without having to drop a few cogs to get the revs up. Traffic light grands prix aren't that common, although I might have witnessed a few in my hot hatch days....
A decent driver can pedal a mid-powered car (with compliant suspension) along A to B on decent roads at a fair lick without anybody (well, anybody concerned about forward visibility) ever trying to overtake them.
Most people rarely venture off busy main roads, though, where drag strip performance is even less of an issue.
It's all about the image for many.
Personally, I'd prefer a reasonably capable car that doesn't draw attention to itself, but a lot of Brits prefer to have the bells and whistles on the outside, rather than inside or under the bonnet, often to the detriment of ride quality, ground clearance and roadholding for the bumpy roads of Britain.
Ps. I'm sure that everybody on here is a smooth, composed, observant, brisk driver....but think about how many/few of your friends, relatives or colleagues are too. Are they better than drivers of 20/30/40 years ago in cars that were half as capable?
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 16th March 11:54
MC Bodge said:
It might be controversial and heresy, but...
...Most modern cars (and vans) are probably fast enough...
Ok, so 0-60 in 11 seconds is more than double what a fast car can do off the line, but the modern turbo engine provides useful acceleration at dual carriageway speeds without having to drop a few cogs to get the revs up. Traffic light grands prix aren't that common, although I might have witnessed a few in my hot hatch days....
A decent driver can pedal a mid-powered car (with compliant suspension) along A to B on decent roads at a fair lick without anybody (well, anybody concerned about forward visibility) ever trying to overtake them.
It's all about the image for many.
Personally, I'd prefer a reasonably capable car that doesn't draw attention to itself, but a lot of Brits prefer to have the bells and whistles on the outside, rather than inside or under the bonnet, often to the detriment of ride quality and ground clearance for the bumpy roads of Britain.
Ps. I'm sure that everybody on here is a smooth, composed, observant, brisk driver....but think about how many/few of your friends, relatives or colleagues are.
I agree, but I would put around an 8-9 second 0-60 as the upper bounds of anything that could vaguely be considered sporty. I certainly would not base a car buying decision on a few 10's at around this level but anything slower just seems to lack that fizz. In comparison, I know an 11 second car feels very slow under a lot of conditions. However I do see you point, I once got roped into driving a 1970's horse box that never actually made it to 60 over 150 miles and I didn't die, I did have to reply on the curtesy of other roads users quite a lot. ...Most modern cars (and vans) are probably fast enough...
Ok, so 0-60 in 11 seconds is more than double what a fast car can do off the line, but the modern turbo engine provides useful acceleration at dual carriageway speeds without having to drop a few cogs to get the revs up. Traffic light grands prix aren't that common, although I might have witnessed a few in my hot hatch days....
A decent driver can pedal a mid-powered car (with compliant suspension) along A to B on decent roads at a fair lick without anybody (well, anybody concerned about forward visibility) ever trying to overtake them.
It's all about the image for many.
Personally, I'd prefer a reasonably capable car that doesn't draw attention to itself, but a lot of Brits prefer to have the bells and whistles on the outside, rather than inside or under the bonnet, often to the detriment of ride quality and ground clearance for the bumpy roads of Britain.
Ps. I'm sure that everybody on here is a smooth, composed, observant, brisk driver....but think about how many/few of your friends, relatives or colleagues are.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 16th March 11:48
ExPat2B said:
I agree, but I would put around an 8-9 second 0-60 as the upper bounds of anything that could vaguely be considered sporty.
You are probably right. That sort of performance may not be the fastest, but it will probably never be/feel too slow for the road. Even when everybody is driving a Tesla, they are not going to be driving them as hard as they can everywhere.
When I went down to a 2.0 Mondeo diesel (for mileage/economy reasons) I was pleasantly surprised that it was even able to keep up on the autobahn.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 16th March 12:12
Mafffew said:
The whole idea of brand dilution is nonsense. Look at what has happened to Porsche since they announced the Cayenne, still producing great sports cars...
So if for example, Porsche decided to adorn the diesel Cayenne with RUF branding or such like... that'd be fine? Mercedes still produce great cars, even greater AMG models but sadly they've opted to boost sales by chucking AMG badges at in essence, basic models in the same way BMW has with the M badge and to an extent as has Ford and Vauxhall with their ST Line and VX line. It reeks of the good old days when you used to roll around in a 1.3 CVH Escort with a Cossie kit... or a 316 with M3 arches and wheels. May look cool, but it's just not... more so when your mate wasted you in his Mum's old Micra.Davie said:
So if for example, Porsche decided to adorn the diesel Cayenne with RUF branding or such like... that'd be fine? Mercedes still produce great cars, even greater AMG models but sadly they've opted to boost sales by chucking AMG badges at in essence, basic models in the same way BMW has with the M badge and to an extent as has Ford and Vauxhall with their ST Line and VX line. It reeks of the good old days when you used to roll around in a 1.3 CVH Escort with a Cossie kit... or a 316 with M3 arches and wheels. May look cool, but it's just not... more so when your mate wasted you in his Mum's old Micra.
The public gets what they want to buy! MC Bodge said:
The public gets what they want to buy!
not with the automotive industry. it takes a couple of decades for them to realise what people actually want.remember the 90s-00s with chav sound systems that would break your ears, randomly coloured lights in the footwell and permanently on lights drilled into the main bulb housing, then front splitters and spoilers stuck on with glue, fake vents, stripes down the centre line of the car.
It was all chavvy crapness then, but it's what people wanted. took 20 years for it to be standard.
I don't think what people actually look for in a car now is available either... which is a small SUV that fits into a parking space with a decent boot size.
mike80 said:
Probably not a popular opinion here, but I don't really see the issue.
Having a car that (subjectively) looks the part, has a great interior with all the kit, but doesn't cost a fortune to maintain and run sounds pretty good to me.
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to exceed appearances or fail to live up to them. Having a car that (subjectively) looks the part, has a great interior with all the kit, but doesn't cost a fortune to maintain and run sounds pretty good to me.
As I said, though, modern cars are mostly quick enough. Buying more power won't reduce journey times (other than potentially allowing more overtaking) and won't greatly improve the ownership experience for most people.
Efbe said:
I don't think what people actually look for in a car now is available either... which is a small SUV that fits into a parking space with a decent boot size.
Really? There seem to be quite a few about. Many German or JLR. The boots are presumably big enough for the people who buy them.
Davie said:
So if for example, Porsche decided to adorn the diesel Cayenne with RUF branding or such like... that'd be fine? Mercedes still produce great cars, even greater AMG models but sadly they've opted to boost sales by chucking AMG badges at in essence, basic models in the same way BMW has with the M badge and to an extent as has Ford and Vauxhall with their ST Line and VX line. It reeks of the good old days when you used to roll around in a 1.3 CVH Escort with a Cossie kit... or a 316 with M3 arches and wheels. May look cool, but it's just not... more so when your mate wasted you in his Mum's old Micra.
Porsche wouldn't put any RUF badges on a car 
But if RUF decided to do something with a diesel Cayenne, they could. Much like Alpina and their diesel BMWs.
MC Bodge said:
Really? There seem to be quite a few about. Many German or JLR.
The boots are presumably big enough for the people who buy them.
"presumably" was the problem with not providing chavved up cars, which is obviously what people want.The boots are presumably big enough for the people who buy them.
maybe the small suv sector is catching up now, but it has taken bloody ages, which was my point on this.
What people what and are given is not the same in automotive.
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