RE: PH Service History: Front-drive track day cars
Discussion
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
dieseluser07 said:
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
Slow, boring and easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN2t4uT97Yo
Maybe a touch OTT, but you can see he is properly quick through some parts.
Maybe a touch OTT, but you can see he is properly quick through some parts.
V8RX7 said:
dieseluser07 said:
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
Prick.
dieseluser07 said:
V8RX7 said:
dieseluser07 said:
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
Prick.
There are some excellent FWD cars, stuff like the 106 Rallye, Megane and Integra but if you like balance and driftability, they have to give to a RWD car.
The Fiesta is not a bad old bus but for me, it does lack the edge many people may look for.
dieseluser07 said:
V8RX7 said:
dieseluser07 said:
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
Prick.
Good options in this article, I've gone from MX5 to Turbo MX5 and now to a stripped out 172 with buckets, cage etc and I find it all a bit boring. Anglesey next week with a new rear anti roll bar and Brands GP in September will hopefully liven things up or it's bye bye Clio and back to RWD.
Can't believe no-one has yet mentioned the omission of the Gen 7 Celica. 
Cheap, common, Toyota reliability, but reckoned to have about 90% of the performance and handling of the much more expensive Integra that it so closely resembles. What's not to like? Comes in several flavours
VVT-I - (Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence apparently)140 bhp, not the most inspiring but can be had from as little as £500. Would be my go-to for Scumrun or similar.
VVTL-I / T-Sport / GT - 190 BHP with the addition of variable lift (i.e. Toyota equivalent of VTEC). The GT was the run out version with extra body kit and possibly an LSD?
TRD M SPORT - The limited edition one. Extra seam welding, short ratio gearing, helical LSD, hand building, very rare and a real match for the Integra. I can only find one for sale: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Cheap, common, Toyota reliability, but reckoned to have about 90% of the performance and handling of the much more expensive Integra that it so closely resembles. What's not to like? Comes in several flavours
VVT-I - (Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence apparently)140 bhp, not the most inspiring but can be had from as little as £500. Would be my go-to for Scumrun or similar.
VVTL-I / T-Sport / GT - 190 BHP with the addition of variable lift (i.e. Toyota equivalent of VTEC). The GT was the run out version with extra body kit and possibly an LSD?
TRD M SPORT - The limited edition one. Extra seam welding, short ratio gearing, helical LSD, hand building, very rare and a real match for the Integra. I can only find one for sale: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Another car that's been forgotten is the Ford Puma. Very popular track day car...dirt cheap to buy at the moment due to the well documented rust issues.
The RWD v FWD argument is always a contentious one. Until recently, I owned a Mazda MX5 NB and a Fiesta ST Mk6 (the wife's car actually) and no doubt, the MX5 was in extremis more fun and better balanced. However, I reckon they'd be evenly matched on track, the heavier ST having more grip and less body roll. The ST Mk6 was always under-rated. Around the old Anglesea circuit it was all of 0.9 seconds slower (on a 55 sec lap) than the much more powerful and highly regarded Clio 182 Cup for example.
I think the article is basically saying that whilst RWD remains the purist choice choice, FWD cars are capable enough now to match many RWD rivals on lap time and circuit usability.
V8RX7 said:
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.
Just wow..... Funny though lol.https://youtu.be/kylxRc788Us
This seems pretty exciting.
Ryvita said:
Can't believe no-one has yet mentioned the omission of the Gen 7 Celica.
Cheap, common, Toyota reliability, but reckoned to have about 90% of the performance and handling of the much more expensive Integra that it so closely resembles. What's not to like?
I think its just a bit forgotten and never had that PH credibility. Bit like the VW Scirocco.Cheap, common, Toyota reliability, but reckoned to have about 90% of the performance and handling of the much more expensive Integra that it so closely resembles. What's not to like?
dieseluser07 said:
V8RX7 said:
dieseluser07 said:
Ive never driven a rwd and i would like to try one but i have to say, fwd will probably always be my first choice.
There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
And that is exactly why some of us prefer RWD - if your mum can drive it as fast as you can, it's not an exciting car.There is less chance of ditching a fwd into a hedge coming out of the corner than there is rwd, a properly set up fwd is much more suitable for me. Start drifting wide? Push the accelerator and the car will straighten up.
My current car - fiesta st mk7, go into a corner fast enough - the back end slides out too and car literally goes sideways making the corner easy to get round, then simply apply the accelerator and the front end grips up and off you go exactly where you point the car, at no point do you worry you will oversteer too much as accelerating snaps the back into line easy as that.
Prick.
Ok so I should have guessed your mum is a pussy too - my mum could drive it as fast.
I have owned hundreds of cars, including all the best FWD cars of the 90's - Golf GTi, 205 GTi, 309 GTi, Integra R... so I have some experience to draw against, the newer FWD I have driven a few but not owned as they tend to be heavier and have driver aids so are generally duller.
You admit to being too much of a girl to even drive a RWD and then get offended - perhaps if you grew a pair you wouldn't be so touchy.
You wouldn't make the first corner in my 240bhp MX5, let alone my 300bhp Griffith or my 440bhp V8 RX7 - that's why they are exciting - no DSC, no traction control, if you floor them you will go sideways.
V8RX7 said:
I have owned hundreds of cars, including all the best FWD cars of the 90's - Golf GTi, 205 GTi, 309 GTi, Integra R... so I have some experience to draw against, the newer FWD I have driven a few but not owned as they tend to be heavier and have driver aids so are generally duller.
You wouldn't make the first corner in my 240bhp MX5, let alone my 300bhp Griffith or my 440bhp V8 RX7 - that's why they are exciting - no DSC, no traction control, if you floor them you will go sideways.
You can turn everything off in a Megane. It's actually more adjustable and lively on the limit than most standard road RWD cars, because of its set up, as in huge front grip and a stiff and very mobile rear. You wouldn't make the first corner in my 240bhp MX5, let alone my 300bhp Griffith or my 440bhp V8 RX7 - that's why they are exciting - no DSC, no traction control, if you floor them you will go sideways.
Obviously you refer to tractive characteristics but that's only a part of how a car handles and only really of importance beyond the apex. Or of no importance if drifting is not your thing, not allowed on most track days anyway.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 9th July 19:32
Ah the time old FWD vs RWD debate. Itll never be solved. It’s like blondes vs brunettes, it’s all just personal taste.
I’ve tracked and raced some pretty hot boosted MX5s over the years. I’m now tracking a 2002 Mini Cooper s. FWD can be a lot of fun, I’m enjoying the differences.
Skip to 2:30 for some exige chasing. https://youtu.be/3KbsuozQvwU
I’ve tracked and raced some pretty hot boosted MX5s over the years. I’m now tracking a 2002 Mini Cooper s. FWD can be a lot of fun, I’m enjoying the differences.
Skip to 2:30 for some exige chasing. https://youtu.be/3KbsuozQvwU
HorneyMX5 said:
Ah the time old FWD vs RWD debate. Itll never be solved. It’s like blondes vs brunettes, it’s all just personal taste.
I’ve tracked and raced some pretty hot boosted MX5s over the years. I’m now tracking a 2002 Mini Cooper s. FWD can be a lot of fun, I’m enjoying the differences.
Skip to 2:30 for some exige chasing. https://youtu.be/3KbsuozQvwU
My blonde was 2 seconds quicker than your brunette at Abingdon despite giving away 50 hp & being on road tyres.I’ve tracked and raced some pretty hot boosted MX5s over the years. I’m now tracking a 2002 Mini Cooper s. FWD can be a lot of fun, I’m enjoying the differences.
Skip to 2:30 for some exige chasing. https://youtu.be/3KbsuozQvwU
HorneyMX5 said:
Ah the time old FWD vs RWD debate. Itll never be solved. It’s like blondes vs brunettes, it’s all just personal taste.
Its not really though, is it? Its physics.Research into the 'traction circle'
Like for like (as in similar focus and power/weight) - the RWD is always superior, you just have to be able to drive.
This doesn't mean I can't enjoy a FWD hatch on the road. I've had plenty. But to think a FWD is superior on track is either ignorance/lack of ability or not driving it to the limit of adhesion.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff