Is this classed as Undertaking?

[7heGeneral]

Unfortunately it is undertaking. I was doing as you describe with a marked police car behind me thinking i was doing no wrong. It was a 50 mph limit (A road) and I'd stayed on the limit, completely oblivious that they were counting how many cars I'd been undertaking. They had me pull over shortly after I'd moved in to the middle lane (the inside lane was soon going to turn off the main carriageway).

I got lucky that the officers understood that I'd "misunderstood" the rule about staying in the inside lane if it was free so let me off with a warning. Essentially if you are in the inside lane, you are not supposed to pass vehicles in the outside lane(s) unless the other lanes are stationary / coming to a halt.

[pingu393]

7heGeneral said:

Unfortunately it is undertaking. I was doing as you describe with a marked police car behind me thinking i was doing no wrong. It was a 50 mph limit (A road) and I'd stayed on the limit, completely oblivious that they were counting how many cars I'd been undertaking. They had me pull over shortly after I'd moved in to the middle lane (the inside lane was soon going to turn off the main carriageway).

I got lucky that the officers understood that I'd "misunderstood" the rule about staying in the inside lane if it was free so let me off with a warning. Essentially if you are in the inside lane, you are not supposed to pass vehicles in the outside lane(s) unless the other lanes are stationary / coming to a halt .

Rule 268 definitely does not mention the other traffic must be slowing down, or stopping.

[vonhosen]

pingu393 said:

vonhosen said:

pingu393 said:

I read on another thread a post from a BiB. He said that an overtake starts with a lane change.

An undertake isn't explained, but the start of the explanation could be reasonably be assumed to be the same as an overtake.

That's

Look at rule 268 I've copied above & look at the 'OR' in the first sentence.

Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. - Pretty clear, until I read the caveats...

In congested conditions, - define "congested"
where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds - define "similar",
traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. - so I can "undertake"
Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. - the "undertaker" in this example hasn't changed lanes.


I'm glad that this is so clear.

What's clear is that it has nothing to do with lane changing.

The interpretation of the other matters (ie congested/similar) that matters is that of the Police/CPS/Courts & whether they determine that what you did fell below the standard expected of a competent & careful driver (because there isn't a legislated offence of undertaking). If they've all come to the same conclusion & you've come to a different one then your thinking is out of kilter. The best way to avoid problems is stay away from the marginal cases. The more slam dunk the circumstances reflect rule 268 the better.

[32Ford29]

7heGeneral said:

Unfortunately it is undertaking. I was doing as you describe with a marked police car behind me thinking i was doing no wrong. It was a 50 mph limit (A road) and I'd stayed on the limit, completely oblivious that they were counting how many cars I'd been undertaking. They had me pull over shortly after I'd moved in to the middle lane (the inside lane was soon going to turn off the main carriageway).

I got lucky that the officers understood that I'd "misunderstood" the rule about staying in the inside lane if it was free so let me off with a warning. Essentially if you are in the inside lane, you are not supposed to pass vehicles in the outside lane(s) unless the other lanes are stationary / coming to a halt.

Thanks 7heGeneral, that is probably the nearest to what I understood, I'll need to be more carefull in future,

[KevinCamaroSS]

32Ford29 said:

Thanks 7heGeneral, that is probably the nearest to what I understood, I'll need to be more carefull in future,

Even though it is at odds to rule 268?

[32Ford29]

KevinCamaroSS said:

32Ford29 said:

Thanks 7heGeneral, that is probably the nearest to what I understood, I'll need to be more carefull in future,

Even though it is at odds to rule 268?

NO, What I mean is so not to do what I have been. As this is obviously wrong

[Stu08]

7heGeneral said:

Unfortunately it is undertaking. I was doing as you describe with a marked police car behind me thinking i was doing no wrong. It was a 50 mph limit (A road) and I'd stayed on the limit, completely oblivious that they were counting how many cars I'd been undertaking. They had me pull over shortly after I'd moved in to the middle lane (the inside lane was soon going to turn off the main carriageway).

I got lucky that the officers understood that I'd "misunderstood" the rule about staying in the inside lane if it was free so let me off with a warning. Essentially if you are in the inside lane, you are not supposed to pass vehicles in the outside lane(s) unless the other lanes are stationary / coming to a halt.

I'm not sure if I fully understand. You were in a 50 limit in lane 1 (inside lane). You had lanes 2 and 3 to your right, and were travelling at the speed limit past cars in lane 2. Only changing lanes as the layout changed and you had to go into lane 2 or go off on another route?

If I have understood that correctly, why were the police not bothered with the MLM's. I'm not picking holes in anything you've said. Just more surprised they were more bothered by you than people sat in the middle lane.

Edit. I do the exact same as you as I'm fed up with swapping lanes 1-2-3-2-1 everytime I come across a MLM travelling at less than the speed limit.

Edited by Stu08 on Tuesday 14th August 23:03

[djc206]

Douglas Quaid said:

If you’re in the middle lane you should be able to pull back over to the left lane without indicating at any point. If someone is undertaking and blocking that manoeuvre they’re in the wrong.

If someone is able to pass you on the inside without driving erratically you are either

A) in heavy traffic/slowing in which case Rule 268 makes exception for them passing on the inside

Or

B) in the wrong lane

[vonhosen]

djc206 said:

Douglas Quaid said:

If you’re in the middle lane you should be able to pull back over to the left lane without indicating at any point. If someone is undertaking and blocking that manoeuvre they’re in the wrong.

If someone is able to pass you on the inside without driving erratically you are either

A) in heavy traffic/slowing in which case Rule 268 makes exception for them passing on the inside

Or

B) in the wrong lane

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

[Ron99]

pingu393 said:

.....traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane......

/\ This /\

[vonhosen]

Ron99 said:

pingu393 said:

.....traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane......

/\ This /\

In congested conditions where speeds are similar.

[djc206]

vonhosen said:

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

I didn’t say they do. I was merely responding to someone stupid enough to believe they should be able to move left without indication because someone can’t pass them on that side, they are of course incorrect there are situations where it is perfectly acceptable to do so and others where it should be expected that someone might pass on that side regardless of whether they are allowed to or not.

[djc206]

vonhosen said:

In congested conditions where speeds are similar.

Define congested

I’d argue if all lanes are moving at broadly similar speeds below the speed limit that could count as congested in which case passing on the inside is perfectly acceptable for a significant portion of the day on a lot of busy motorways. It certainly improves the flow of traffic.

[vonhosen]

djc206 said:

vonhosen said:

In congested conditions where speeds are similar.

Define congested

I’d argue if all lanes are moving at broadly similar speeds below the speed limit that could count as congested in which case passing on the inside is perfectly acceptable for a significant portion of the day on a lot of busy motorways. It certainly improves the flow of traffic.

See my earlier post @2229 on congested/similar.

[roadsmash]

Even though the Highway Code has been clearly quoted, I guarantee this turns into a 20 pager!

[hooblah]

Is undertaking actually a thing? With people driving around like berks in the middle lane, more and more people 'undertake'. If they don't have any lane discipline then why should I? I just call it overtaking. You're getting past them, which side it's on doesn't matter.

[vonhosen]

hooblah said:

Is undertaking actually a thing? With people driving around like berks in the middle lane, more and more people 'undertake'. If they don't have any lane discipline then why should I? I just call it overtaking. You're getting past them, which side it's on doesn't matter.

Undertaking is overtaking on the left.
The Highway Code describes the rules.
The Highway Code doesn't issue free passes to go outside the Highway Code because you've seen somebody else go outside the rules.

[hooblah]

Rules shmules. I make them up as I go along...

[vonhosen]

hooblah said:

Rules shmules. I make them up as I go along...

Roll em.

[daniel1920]

When the m1 is busy, I see L1 as the exclusive, hidden, private lane. You can cruise along at 57, matching the lorries. You will encounter another car about once every 5 minutes, then sit back and watch the (slow) mayhem of L2&3.