RE: £50k Integra Type R!
Discussion
is1 said:
The US got a raw deal - no titanium shift knob, no Recaro Speed seats and no MOMO steering wheel.
Also, the ROTW wheels were forged and incredibly light - not sure about the ones fitted to the car in the article but other than the mileage, this seems to omit much of the stuff that geeks like about cars like this.
I always laugh when I read 'titanium shift knob'....... I had a new Dc2 in 98 and remember screwing the gear knob off to see how light it was, guess what? It's a heavy steel knob.Also, the ROTW wheels were forged and incredibly light - not sure about the ones fitted to the car in the article but other than the mileage, this seems to omit much of the stuff that geeks like about cars like this.
mike150 said:
I always laugh when I read 'titanium shift knob'....... I had a new Dc2 in 98 and remember screwing the gear knob off to see how light it was, guess what? It's a heavy steel knob.
Just putting it out there that light weight was probably not main reason Honda made it Titanium. That was probably more to do with heat conductivity, given Ti is known for not conducting heat particularly well and hence doesn't get hot/cold like a steel knob could. Probably also to do with the finish you can get with Ti on a wearing part like a gear knob.A super light weight gear knob could actually ruin the shift feel given these things are weighted for that very reason.
Also, they are titanium. I've got one sat in front of me and it's very definitely not steel.
Edited by poobah on Monday 1st October 15:12
poobah said:
Just putting it out there that light weight was probably not main reason Honda made it Titanium. That was probably more to do with heat conductivity, given Ti is known for not conducting heat particularly well and hence doesn't get hot/cold like a steel knob could. Probably also to do with the finish you can get with Ti on a wearing part like a gear knob.
As the owner of an FD2 with the silver (steel) ball, I can vouch for this:-- The finish is a mess, I need to get a new one;
- You REALLY don't want to leave the car with sun pouring through the windscreen all day...
It's a lot of money but in a world where Mk1 Escorts and the like sell for similar (and higher) sums it's just supply and demand. They're great cars, but there is also a lot of rose tinted specs I feel. After owning an NSX I went back to one and was surprised that it left me a bit cold. In 2000 though, nobody new what they were really and you could surprise a lot of people on the road. The interior of the Acura is pretty naff compared to what we got, I always preferred the JDM version exterior, that's the one I would be hunting down if I felt the need again. Brilliant cars from a time when Honda got most things right.
bencollins4 said:
rodericb said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Like any car, actually. Makes you wonder why people pay good money for old Porsches, Ferraris and so on when the modern ones far surpass those old heaps!UKDM interior is much more special than this one, so they are surely good for £100k+!
Seriously, as good as they are this seems like a mental amount of money for one of these right now.
xjay1337 said:
Integras are a cult classic but £50k?
World is bonkers and many car enthusiasts are also nutters.
£50k will buy you nearly anything this side of (and including) a V10 R8.....
Amen to that. I've actually got a pretty mint UKDM Integra Type R but even as an actual owner I don't think a real minter should be worth any more than say £10-12k. I think that's a reasonable ceiling for cars like this, Clio Williams, 205 Gti etc. World is bonkers and many car enthusiasts are also nutters.
£50k will buy you nearly anything this side of (and including) a V10 R8.....
Sadly, based upon the evidence, most of the world appears to disagree with me!
I love the morons incredulous at what people pay for cars.
Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
hondansx said:
I love the morons incredulous at what people pay for cars.
Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
Suspect you are right, probably someone an Barratt Jackson for whom this is small change, you have a limited amount of time on this earth and if you have plenty of cash, may as well crack on and buy it as the clock is ticking, for those people, they can probably always get more money but no more time. Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
For the rest of us, take you pick of the rest of the examples in the classifieds that have been pre-enjoyed for much less and get pretty much the same experience, that box fresh bit is very expensive.
I think at 8 to 12 grand they arent bad value for mortals still, cant see them dropping much, sort of the Mk2 Escort for the Gran Turismo generation perhaps ?
Also, there seems to be some crossover between wealthy people and the less exotic cars but by and large, dont the really wealthy/old money stick to supercars and blue chip sort of classics ? I guess a lot of the very highly priced Fast Fords are more working guy who has done well ?
Edited by J4CKO on Monday 1st October 18:57
hondansx said:
I love the morons incredulous at what people pay for cars.
Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
Sums it up perfectly. All it takes is a couple of people with with similar nostalgia for the price to get where it did. If I had many millions, the cost would be largely irrelevant in order to get my hands on some mint cars of my youth.Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
cb1965 said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Have you ever driven one of these? I owned one for many years, by far and away the best out of the box handling car I have ever owned.Derek Chevalier said:
cb1965 said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Have you ever driven one of these? I owned one for many years, by far and away the best out of the box handling car I have ever owned.But I'd also point out the following, which from an engagement point of view are likely to count against it:-
- EPAS
- +250kg
- Turbo
- (Much) greater unsprung weight
- Higher driving position
The thing that makes the DC2 Integra so great is the cohesiveness of it all - no one facet dominates the driving experience. Even though you'd think the powertrain would shine-through (it's a Type-R, after all - that's what they've subsequently become reknowned for), in a lot of cases it's actually the chassis and the feel/feedback - that rare ability to keep upping its game the more questions you ask of it. The lack of inertia anywhere, the near-perfect driving position, the control-weights and responses...if anything the one
in the armour is the comparative lack of mid-range pull*...and in that regard it DOES show its age.* Even though torque-to-weight was broadly equal to the contemporary GTi-6.
rossub said:
hondansx said:
I love the morons incredulous at what people pay for cars.
Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
Sums it up perfectly. All it takes is a couple of people with with similar nostalgia for the price to get where it did. If I had many millions, the cost would be largely irrelevant in order to get my hands on some mint cars of my youth.Do people really think that someone who pays £45k on an Integra is buying this as their only car?
Picture this: someone had an Integra when they were in their 20s. Since then, they've gone on to make a fair wedge and have indulged in many a nice car. But you know what, it would be great to experience a bit of nostalgia and get the car they loved in their youth - box fresh as if they were back in 1997.
But please, keep telling us where you would rather spend the money.
I loved Knight Rider for example but I'm not going to pay £300 for the box set of it.................
It's a very cool car but f
k me it's more inflated than a 911 GT3.......... 
rodericb said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Like any car, actually. Makes you wonder why people pay good money for old Porsches, Ferraris and so on when the modern ones far surpass those old heaps!What i am struggling here with is 50k for what is a great car but i would put my 50k elsewhere it does not seem special enough {though it is special).
So just my view but hey if we all felt the same then life would be very dull indeed
Having a DC2 Type R myself, which I value as one of the best driver's cars (Including E30 M3, high powered RX-7's, AMG's, etc which I also keep), I can appreciate why these cars are climbing in desirability.
If you've been watching what top condition, and considerably higher mileage Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9's, Golf GTi Mk 1's, Ford Escort RS Turbo (Mk. 1) and other hot hatches are making these days. £30,000 for a low mileage example in top condition - is not unheard of.
But here's the crux. The DC2 Type R will run rings around any of these so called icons. It's still one of the most involving of the modern classic FWD cars to drive and there are few better engineered cars. Putting it next to a DC5 Type R, the newer car although endowed with a better engine, wasn't as involving to drive and the V-Tec zone comes on imperceptibly - which is less entertaining in my view. The DC5 is also a considerably larger car, which made it significantly no faster on circuit lap times, when it was introduced in Japan. It's certainly not as sought after in Japan these days as a mint and perfect condition DC2 is.
Mine, a completely rust free and low mileage (1999 Japanese market spec) example has doubled in value in the last couple of years and will no doubt continue to go up. Won't be long before they're worth double what they are now - for the best preserved low mileage examples. Give it a few years...
If you've been watching what top condition, and considerably higher mileage Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9's, Golf GTi Mk 1's, Ford Escort RS Turbo (Mk. 1) and other hot hatches are making these days. £30,000 for a low mileage example in top condition - is not unheard of.
But here's the crux. The DC2 Type R will run rings around any of these so called icons. It's still one of the most involving of the modern classic FWD cars to drive and there are few better engineered cars. Putting it next to a DC5 Type R, the newer car although endowed with a better engine, wasn't as involving to drive and the V-Tec zone comes on imperceptibly - which is less entertaining in my view. The DC5 is also a considerably larger car, which made it significantly no faster on circuit lap times, when it was introduced in Japan. It's certainly not as sought after in Japan these days as a mint and perfect condition DC2 is.
Mine, a completely rust free and low mileage (1999 Japanese market spec) example has doubled in value in the last couple of years and will no doubt continue to go up. Won't be long before they're worth double what they are now - for the best preserved low mileage examples. Give it a few years...
U.S. model Type R DC2's were inferior to the JDM model in several ways.
Less power, no Recaro SR seats (Most Americans wouldn't fit!), Titanium shift knob (weighted for balance), No Momo steering wheel, less attractive exterior styling, smaller brakes, non-forged wheels - and some U.S. models were equipped with an electric sunroof, something the Japanese never introduced as it was considered undesirable to add weight.
Less power, no Recaro SR seats (Most Americans wouldn't fit!), Titanium shift knob (weighted for balance), No Momo steering wheel, less attractive exterior styling, smaller brakes, non-forged wheels - and some U.S. models were equipped with an electric sunroof, something the Japanese never introduced as it was considered undesirable to add weight.
havoc said:
Derek Chevalier said:
cb1965 said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Have you ever driven one of these? I owned one for many years, by far and away the best out of the box handling car I have ever owned.But I'd also point out the following, which from an engagement point of view are likely to count against it:-
- EPAS
- +250kg
- Turbo
- (Much) greater unsprung weight
- Higher driving position
The thing that makes the DC2 Integra so great is the cohesiveness of it all - no one facet dominates the driving experience. Even though you'd think the powertrain would shine-through (it's a Type-R, after all - that's what they've subsequently become reknowned for), in a lot of cases it's actually the chassis and the feel/feedback - that rare ability to keep upping its game the more questions you ask of it. The lack of inertia anywhere, the near-perfect driving position, the control-weights and responses...if anything the one
in the armour is the comparative lack of mid-range pull*...and in that regard it DOES show its age.* Even though torque-to-weight was broadly equal to the contemporary GTi-6.
EPAS: I think Renault nailed EPAS steering feel (R26.R and 275 etc) and my guess is that Honda took a Renault and worked out how they did it. Very direct and pin sharp turn in - IMO superior to the NSX (which is very low geared in comparison)
+250kg: It certainly doesn't "feel" any heavier than my 182 - (but certainly a lot wider, which can impact on country lanes)
Turbo: Not sure you can avoid this in modern hot hatches, and the Civic's isn't a bad effort. Pulls hard to 7000rpm and makes a decent noise
(Much) greater unsprung weight: I think the damping is exceptional - certainly gets distracted less on mid corner bumps than the NSX on PS4 tyres
- Higher driving position; Maybe on the previous version but not on the FK8
All the things you mention re the Integra ring true for the Civic, IMO
Gecko1978 said:
rodericb said:
Gecko1978 said:
WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.
Like any car, actually. Makes you wonder why people pay good money for old Porsches, Ferraris and so on when the modern ones far surpass those old heaps!What i am struggling here with is 50k for what is a great car but i would put my 50k elsewhere it does not seem special enough {though it is special).
So just my view but hey if we all felt the same then life would be very dull indeed
Surely the price of this comes from the fact it's 1 of 320 USDM units, above everything else? That's quite a limited amount of cars and if this is the one for you, then you pay for it. Also if that's the price it got at auction, that means someone else was willing to pay circa £48k for it too.
Even if its technically inferior to the JDM or UKDM version, that limited number means they don't have much choice if that's the car they want (LHD, low mileage with an Acura badge).
Even if its technically inferior to the JDM or UKDM version, that limited number means they don't have much choice if that's the car they want (LHD, low mileage with an Acura badge).
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