RE: VW virtually admits it is targeting FoS record

[RobM77]

boyse7en said:

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.

It's an invitation only event. You can't just enter it like you would any other event.

[peterg1955]

boyse7en said:

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.

Goodwood FoS invites people to the event to run their cars, if you don't get invited then you can't run...apparently they don't think actual hillclimb cars are glamorous enough (my words) to run there...

This is commitment, Graeme Wight Jr at Doune (note that there is no flappy paddle gearchange on his car back then so one handed steering at times!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsoJeCkSsFs

[Sway]

Dr G said:

poppopbangbang said:

I'm half tempted to build a "Goodwood" gearbox for the Minardi, turn it up to 17K and see how close a hot shoe can get to McLarens time in it.... it's 20 years on in tyre development and I have access to Pirellis

I think it would be a 'one shot' sort of a deal before Lord March got grumpy but what an awesome way to upset the apple cart

If there was a hint of an "unsanctioned" record attempt, you can pretty much guarantee they won't leave enough gap to the car in front to allow it...

[Prizam]

peterg1955 said:

boyse7en said:

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.

Goodwood FoS invites people to the event to run their cars, if you don't get invited then you can't run...apparently they don't think actual hillclimb cars are glamorous enough (my words) to run there...

This is commitment, Graeme Wight Jr at Doune (note that there is no flappy paddle gearchange on his car back then so one handed steering at times!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsoJeCkSsFs

The current number 2 position is a hill climb car, it took a while for an F1 car to beat it. That year was the last time hill climb cars were invited. Strange, as it is, after all, a hill climb course.

[Prizam]

boyse7en said:

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.

Yes. F1 cars are not exactly great for hill climbs.

The Nick Heidfeld run was NOT a standard F1 car. it was stripped right back, with the wick turned right up with shortened gear ratios and extra aero. Nothing wrong with that, but it was not exactly representative of a "normal" F1 car.

[RobM77]

Prizam said:

boyse7en said:

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.

Yes. F1 cars are not exactly great for hill climbs.

The Nick Heidfeld run was NOT a standard F1 car. it was stripped right back, with the wick turned right up with shortened gear ratios and extra aero. Nothing wrong with that, but it was not exactly representative of a "normal" F1 car.

Just on those points in turn:

• How do you strip an F1 car right back? I'm very familiar with various single seaters and can't think of any extraneous things one would remove.
• Gear ratios - it's normal to change these for each circuit you visit. That's standard F1.
• Extra aero - it's normal to increase wing angles. Was the car running anything it didn't run during the season? (e.g. at Monaco?).

[Blackpuddin]

ukaskew said:

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately.

This x 100

[C.A.R.]

Blackpuddin said:

ukaskew said:

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately.

This x 100

This with (alarm) bells on. Have you seen the footage of the Dakar truck going around there from a couple of years back? I'm sure the hay bales will have stopped it

[DaveK-S1]

I think Mclaren admitted at the time they ran in as max downforce trim as they could , and with the wick turned up to 11 for the run.

It would be interesting to see a current purpose built current hillclimb car compete, it wouldn't be a dramatic as the mclaren run though as they tend to keep them straight and smooth

Bear in mind this run from Jos goodyear same place as the other Raptor at doune this run is 1.2 sec quicker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kufacVXlSc

[Sevenman]

Regarding hill climb cars, A round of the British Hill Climb Championship held at Goodwood would be entertaining, and interesting to see where they would be with respect to the record. Can't see that happening though.

[ukaskew]

Was it the Gobstopper Impreza that 'beat' the P1 LM a few years ago? They didn't invite it back the next year and took a fair bit of flak over it. I imagine manufacturers have a pretty strong say in what gets invited, a $2m hypercar being beaten by a hatchback built in a shed doesn't look too good for them, even if in reality it makes no difference in the real world.

[RobM77]

ukaskew said:

Was it the Gobstopper Impreza that 'beat' the P1 LM a few years ago? They didn't invite it back the next year and took a fair bit of flak over it. I imagine manufacturers have a pretty strong say in what gets invited, a $2m hypercar being beaten by a hatchback built in a shed doesn't look too good for them, even if in reality it makes no difference in the real world.

That's one of the strangest things about the car world: how few people realise that a fully homologated road car is playing by very different rules to a modified car or a racing car, and how few people realise how much faster a racing car is than a road car. This leads to an odd situation where people in the know respect a car like the P1 massively, because it's so hard to build a road car that's civil, legal and fast; and people who don't really know much think the P1's the fastest car out there; with an odd middle ground that leads to what you describe above.

[ecsrobin]

Here’s the top 10 quickest runs: https://youtu.be/kD5tBgr2LLc

Plenty of crash videos online but the gumpert was probably the one with the highest speed. https://youtu.be/AoXLv4pUtvk

Chris hot did manage a few years ago to put a GTR through 3-4 rows of hay bails but since then they have also staked the extra bails of hay in to try and reduce how many you go through.

[Sway]

I recall, perhaps a decade ago, a new release Ferrari (perhaps the 599?) crashing - and bits of bodywork hitting the crowd right next to me.

No injuries, but there were some pretty big lumps (including the whole centre section of the front bumper, including badge) being only a few feet from the last hay bale line we were all stood behind.

Marshall gave it to a kid 2-3 people down.

When the Dakar trucks have been there, the energies involved seem huge - not the fastest, but with the mass, and the height of that mass...

[Vaud]

RobM77 said:

Just on those points in turn:

• How do you strip an F1 car right back? I'm very familiar with various single seaters and can't think of any extraneous things one would remove.
• Gear ratios - it's normal to change these for each circuit you visit. That's standard F1.
• Extra aero - it's normal to increase wing angles. Was the car running anything it didn't run during the season? (e.g. at Monaco?).

Gear ratios are fixed for the season in the modern cars.

[RobM77]

Vaud said:

RobM77 said:

Just on those points in turn:

• How do you strip an F1 car right back? I'm very familiar with various single seaters and can't think of any extraneous things one would remove.
• Gear ratios - it's normal to change these for each circuit you visit. That's standard F1.
• Extra aero - it's normal to increase wing angles. Was the car running anything it didn't run during the season? (e.g. at Monaco?).

Gear ratios are fixed for the season in the modern cars.

Apologies, we were talking about Heidfeld’s MP4/13 (1998 V10 era car). I think fixed ratios came in 2014?

[tobinen]

C.A.R. said:

Blackpuddin said:

ukaskew said:

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately.

This x 100

This with (alarm) bells on. Have you seen the footage of the Dakar truck going around there from a couple of years back? I'm sure the hay bales will have stopped it

I've never been so I can't comment on how it is in real life, but this has always struck me as a major risk. Are those hay bales really capable of stopping something quick from going into the crowd? It looks a bit dubious on the telly.

[Sway]

tobinen said:

C.A.R. said:

Blackpuddin said:

ukaskew said:

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately.

This x 100

This with (alarm) bells on. Have you seen the footage of the Dakar truck going around there from a couple of years back? I'm sure the hay bales will have stopped it

I've never been so I can't comment on how it is in real life, but this has always struck me as a major risk. Are those hay bales really capable of stopping something quick from going into the crowd? It looks a bit dubious on the telly.

Having been stood behind them, as a car has crashed into them 'heading straight for me' - yes.

They aren't your average hay bales - they're fooking massive.

Over the years, they've added layers upon layers of them, and some of the early year best viewing spots are now out of bounds (often with a big camera stand behind five or six rows of staked bales).

There are still loads of areas with only a single line of bales, and spectators are right up against them, only a dozen feet or so from the edge of the tarmac. That's only in places it's almost inconceivable that someone will crash - and if they did the speed into the bale would be very low (a "glancing hit").

It's a fine balance. Although I'm not as frequent a visitor to FoS now (i live less than five minutes away, and it's become a tad too busy and there is a lot of repetition year to year) I still think it's perhaps the best spectating modern car event on the planet.

Members meeting and Revival knock it into a cocked hat though...

[Vaud]

RobM77 said:

Apologies, we were talking about Heidfeld’s MP4/13 (1998 V10 era car). I think fixed ratios came in 2014?

Yes, 2014.

[Wammer]

Augustus Windsock said:

redroadster said:

Sway said:

Considering the difference in crowds since 99, and the "not huge" changes to crowd protection at FoS, is this really sensible?

The guys like Justin Law going for FTD always seem to have a little in reserve, and doing it mainly for fun. Going for an outright record is a rather different ballgame.

The festival has a rather better record than the TT where someone dies every year and it puts no one of going to watch or participate ,it's on your ticket it's dangerous no claims for injury .

Exactly.
Spectators must have an idea of the risks involved.
After all, if they feel that the thrill-to-risk ratio isn’t favourable then they could always go and watch crown green bowling or the local OAP crochet group...
I wonder how long it will be until the tree-hugging muesli-treading enviro-mentalists bring about a ban on events like the FOS; dip your bread while you still can...

Why does green bowling and croquet have to be associated with OAP. I played bowls when i was 20 and have just taken up Croquet.