RE: Ferrari 488 Pista vs. Porsche 911 GT2 RS
Discussion
StuH said:
mooseracer said:
I know what you mean but sounds like PH had fun with them on the road and I'm sure I would.
They’re just fun - full stop. This hackneyed notion of being ‘too fast for the road’ is such a load of garbage. An average fast diesel repmobile can do twice the legal limit - so what?These cars offer a sense of occasion, level of driver feedback and sense of joy to drive that they are always nothing less than sensational. Why is there the constant assumption that if you have this kind of money for a car you automatically have another 350k kicking around? There are plenty of people who could stretch to ONE of these if they put there mind to it but not both. It’s like saying ah I see you bought that 500k house why didn’t you buy the neighbours as well? It’s stupid.
The thing with cars like these is that as hard as it is to believe they are unbelievably easy and most of all flattering to drive fast and are still huge fun on the road. Get up early find a country road you can let one of these rip a surprising amount. Yes that means breaking the speed limit a lot but who buys fast cars to go everywhere at 50-60. By that measurement every hot hatch is to fast for the road.
The thing with cars like these is that as hard as it is to believe they are unbelievably easy and most of all flattering to drive fast and are still huge fun on the road. Get up early find a country road you can let one of these rip a surprising amount. Yes that means breaking the speed limit a lot but who buys fast cars to go everywhere at 50-60. By that measurement every hot hatch is to fast for the road.
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!
(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
I was of the same thought until recently. I had a similar chat with the owner of a 458 on a drive in the Peaks. He took me for a quick spin and it was a hell of a thing. Following it was pretty impressive too, even on so e very tight roads the speed it was able to carry was pretty impressive.(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
I’d have either if I had the cash!
StuH said:
mooseracer said:
I know what you mean but sounds like PH had fun with them on the road and I'm sure I would.
They’re just fun - full stop. This hackneyed notion of being ‘too fast for the road’ is such a load of garbage. An average fast diesel repmobile can do twice the legal limit - so what?These cars offer a sense of occasion, level of driver feedback and sense of joy to drive that they are always nothing less than sensational. I’ve been to Wales a few times with friends and probably driven over the same roads in this article. Mainly In early 911s. A friend brought a 991.1 GT3 and another a GT4 and they let me drive their cars. Although both had a lot more power the limiting factor for cross country speed is never the car’s ability. Pretty much all of the time I’m limiting my speed for other reasons eg can’t see around the corner, potential for sheep to wander into the road, other road users, not being willing to double or triple speed limits, poor road surfaces etc. With more powerful cars (or bikes) I just hit those self imposed speed limits much earlier. Given that I can’t / won’t extract maximum performance from a car on the road then having an old car with no power steering, no ABS, no PDK, no TC, no stability control etc means that making similar progress requires a lot of extra input from the driver and for me is more rewarding.
Somewhat ironic that 25 years ago I lusted after supercars but couldn’t afford them yet now when I could buy what I want, none of them interest me. At this point I’m not sure I will even buy a performance car again as when I need a buzz I go out on my bike. If the prices of old 911s crash I might buy another one of those.
Interesting comparison and not an easy decision given these two cars are up there as two of the most desirable cars currently available. The Pista is the wrong colour for me personally but as a car is utterly gorgeous, the GT2 not quite as pleasing aesthetically as the GT3, but a true weapon on the road.
It would be a coin flip for me to decide I think!
It would be a coin flip for me to decide I think!
SidewaysSi said:
I have not driven a GT2 RS but have extensively driven a GT4 and 992S on track.
A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
Yes probably. I have tracked a fairly powerful Caterham quite a few times and they are hilarious in a way no road car can match. Sitting on the rear axle does help. A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
But they are a somewhat different proposition to these two and you couldn't blame someone for preferring a more versatile solution for obvious logistical benefits.
Besides, it's conceivable that owners also have or rent a Caterham on TDs.
wab172uk said:
Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun.
Too quick for the road to make them any fun??Yep, no fun at all there. Anyone driving either of these two cars anywhere would have an absolutely dreadful time. Burbling along in a gorgeous looking machine with circa 700bhp sitting behind you making a fabulous noise at any revs. Feel sorry for any poor b
d having to go through such a woeful, boring, unfun experience.nickfrog said:
SidewaysSi said:
I have not driven a GT2 RS but have extensively driven a GT4 and 992S on track.
A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
Yes probably. I have tracked a fairly powerful Caterham quite a few times and they are hilarious in a way no road car can match. Sitting on the rear axle does help. A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
But they are a somewhat different proposition to these two and you couldn't blame someone for preferring a more versatile solution for obvious logistical benefits.
Besides, it's conceivable that owners also have or rent a Caterham on TDs.
Edited by SidewaysSi on Sunday 13th October 09:19
SidewaysSi said:
I have not driven a GT2 RS but have extensively driven a GT4 and 992S on track.
A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
Unless you live on track then my response to this point - as an owner of a GT2RS and a Caterham 620R - both “so what?” and “that’s also subjective and in my experience not something I would agree with.”A Caterham murders then for fun. So would any number of cars.
They are cars for different moods, journeys and tracks. Both are epic, but it is just not true that you will ALWAYS have more fun in one than the other.
Best I could squeeze out of my 620R at the Ring was a 7.38 but there were GT2RS there doing 7.15’s. I would guess at Spa also the Porsche would be quicker. Which was more fun? Impossible to say I’m sure. And I guess the position is reversed at smaller and/or more twisty tracks.
Do I find the ease you can break traction in the Caterham and how playful and controllable it is fun, absolutely. It’s hilarious and I would not tire of it. But as a road car, this particular version of Caterham is probably too manic for the road far more than the GT2RS is, but I don’t hear anybody saying pah I’d rather have a 1.0 Fiesta.
I’ve had some of my best drives ever in the Porsche. It is bonkers fast, and I love it far more than pretty much any modern 911 including all the GT3’s and RS I have owned, with the possible exception of the 4.0 997RS which to me is the pinnacle of the modern 911. Here is is at the top of the Grossglockner last year after a “mutual thumbs up” drive from bottom to top with a guy on a super bike of some sort.
Would I buy a Pista? No. A bright coloured Ferrari is not my bag any more. I recently tried it and bought a Speciale but could not get on with its overly light and darty steering which to me gave little feel about grip at the front, and it was just too quiet in stock form. Pista isn’t going to make any of those things better.
AndrewD said:
...and it was just too quiet in stock form. Pista isn’t going to make any of those things better.
Quoting a tiny bit here as it's been something I've wondered about recently - all this talk of these cars on track, I do wonder these days just how many of them would (in standard form) pass a static DB test. On the static test at Croft this summer, my 718S only just scraped by...and I'm pretty sure the 'noise' from those has been covered once or twice before. 
Tim bo said:
wab172uk said:
Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun.
Too quick for the road to make them any fun??Yep, no fun at all there. Anyone driving either of these two cars anywhere would have an absolutely dreadful time. Burbling along in a gorgeous looking machine with circa 700bhp sitting behind you making a fabulous noise at any revs. Feel sorry for any poor b
d having to go through such a woeful, boring, unfun experience.But they are to fast for the road to be fun, in terms of ragging them around. Best you'd get is to red line them in first and second. Third if no one around and you have a straight road. But you'll have much more fun driving a slower car that you can extend, rather than sitting in a car you have to restrain yourself in.
The Pista more so is (in the UK at least) more a status symbol than buying it to drive quickly on a Sunday. As Evo said in last years ECOTY, is Pista mullers most things while sat in 7th gear.
You just cannot extend the engines on the public road. You'll either run out of road / talent, or end up doing 6 months for dangerous driving. What's fun about that?
wab172uk said:
You just cannot extend the engines on the public road. You'll either run out of road / talent, or end up doing 6 months for dangerous driving. What's fun about that?
You could say the same thing about many new cars. It would certainly be the case in my humble Megane, hence having my fun on track.As for the perceived social status thing ; I think this comes from non owners.
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