Brexit will change the mix of cars sold in the UK.

[can't remember]

Scare mongering.

Give it a couple of years and we'll all be driving round in our Humbers, Austins and Singers using proper, non-polluting British petrol out of the North sea not this dirty foreign muck with carbons in it.

[df76]

Debaser said:

What happens if not enough people in the UK want to buy low CO2 cars? How will they get the average down?

Manufacturers will stop selling the higher co2 cars if they can’t be competitive (as the penalties rise over time).

Edited by df76 on Wednesday 22 January 13:56

[Lotobear]

df76 said:

It was one of the overarching Brexit pledges, that we would match the EU environmental requirements. Which of course we will no longer have any say when these are amended or set. As above, we will no longer be able to offset against lower levels from elsewhere.

I'm sure that everyone considered this when voting.

..so it's not the law then and will depend upon how negotiations pan out?

(not a provocative comment by the way just wanting to understand the actuality, hence my original question)

[malaccamax]

This is the key point

DfT will “pursue a future approach that is at least as ambitious as the current arrangements”. So a parallel arrangement, not the same as the EU's.

BUT, JLR will be asking for a softening of the 95g/km targets because its vehicles are less good on fuel. Also I'd imagine there'd be a chunk of Boris's voters calling for it to be watered down too, not least because it's tough on smaller, cheaper cars that can't be electrified. This is the big point. There's not much you can do to lower CO2 on a boggo petrol Fiesta without making it so expensive no one will buy it.

I can't in the life of me work out how it's going to be "as ambitious" as the current arrangement AND deliver on voter promises. Which could be a good thing, depending on your point of view. Any ideas?

[df76]

Lotobear said:

df76 said:

It was one of the overarching Brexit pledges, that we would match the EU environmental requirements. Which of course we will no longer have any say when these are amended or set. As above, we will no longer be able to offset against lower levels from elsewhere.

I'm sure that everyone considered this when voting.

..so it's not the law then and will depend upon how negotiations pan out?

(not a provocative comment by the way just wanting to understand the actuality, hence my original question)

As brexit hasn’t happened yet, we are still playing by eu laws / regulations. However this was a firm pledge and we won’t be able to freely trade with our biggest market without aligning. The deal is as “done” as it can be.

Given that we currently offset and the government carbon reduction manifesto is ahead of other governments, the likelihood of a relaxation is rather remote.

[Olivergt]

RogerDodger said:

95JO said:

RogerDodger said:

A) and that's a bad thing?
B) it's the "independent".

A) Yes, if you're the average PH'er
B) Don't people say similar about every newspaper? Could you tell me the appropriate newspaper to read, please?

Whatever paper suits you, just, relevant to the article, the independent is hugely pro-remain (rabid anti Brexit) and I am not exaggerating in any way.

Don't shoot the messenger, the article contains facts about what will happen next year with regards to Brexit and average CO2 values for the UK, and the possible implications for UK car sales.

Facts are not dependent upon the person/paper providing them, they stand or fall on their own merits.

Here is a link to the UK Government documentation on the changes:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/550/pdfs/u...


Section 12 outlines any impacts that the government can envisage:

12. Impact
12.1 There is no significant impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies.
12.2 There is no significant impact on the public sector.
12.3 An Impact Assessment has not been prepared for this instrument because the costs and
benefits to business are expected to fall below £5m in any one calendar year. The
instrument maintains existing regulatory standards for CO2 emissions from newly
registered cars and vans in the UK, so will not impose any additional regulatory
burden at the point of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.
12.4 When the formulae are updated as required by the legislation, and the average mass
figure in the formulae reflects a UK average rather than an EU average, economic
models indicate that increasing uptake of electric vehicles through the early 2020s
will allow manufacturers to meet the new targets without any additional economic
burden.

Looking at 12.4, it seems to be saying that if electric car sales reach the expected targets there won't be an impact, so we will have to wait and see if electric car sales meet the required targets.

Edited by Olivergt on Wednesday 22 January 15:55

[kambites]

malaccamax said:

There's not much you can do to lower CO2 on a boggo petrol Fiesta without making it so expensive no one will buy it.

Toyota manage to sell a Yaris witha WLTP figure of 75g/km for £18k; that's only £2k more than an entry level Fiesta. Admittedly you can probably get bigger discounts on the Ford.

[HealeyV8]

I'm happy with anything that stops the rise of huge wasteful SUVs on our roads. Going back to normal sized cars is good.

[markyb_lcy]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Lotobear said:

...perhaps I'm missing something obvious but can the UK not decide whatever limit it wishes to adopt?

nope

as part of a free trade agreement will match all EU laws and regulations

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

[voyds9]

So just add a piece of legislation to say we will still average over the FTA

[Down and out]

markyb_lcy said:

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

[kieranblenk]

Baldchap said:

I looked on the Subaru site the other day because I wondered if they'd gone out of business.

Can't imagine many people have noticed this price rise, given the lack of new Subarus on the roads.

I have lived less than 3 miles from a Subaru main dealer for almost 2 years now and in that time other than what's on their forecourt I can hand on heart say I have NEVER seen any Subaru of any sort newer than a 17 plate locally. It's joint onto a Citroen/DS showroom and you see hundreds of newish cars with their dealer plates on.

[eldar]

Arnold Cunningham said:

I am looking forward to buying a brand new Vauxhall Viva. Or perhaps a British Leyland Princess. Maybe a Dolomite?

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Wednesday 22 January 13:56

Brand new Vauxhall Viva?

Coming right up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Viva

[df76]

Down and out said:

markyb_lcy said:

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

I’d hope that everyone is still allowed an opinion though?

[WonkeyDonkey]

This can't be great news for JLR, especially on day they've already announced job losses.

Surely it will be very difficult for them to get their figures down that low unless the i-Pace starts selling in ridiculous numbers.

[df76]

WonkeyDonkey said:

This can't be great news for JLR, especially on day they've already announced job losses.

Surely it will be very difficult for them to get their figures down that low unless the i-Pace starts selling in ridiculous numbers.

US threatening significant tariffs on UK car imports. Very bad news.

[markyb_lcy]

Down and out said:

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

I accept the result ... doesn’t mean I have to agree it was the right one or give up debating it.

This “democracy” you speak of, is that where something gets decided by a majority and everyone else has to shut up about it? Nobody can change minds, challenge views or pass comment. That’s no kinda democracy I want to live in.

[Down and out]

df76 said:

Down and out said:

markyb_lcy said:

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

I’d hope that everyone is still allowed an opinion though?

I'm sure remainers will never stop having those.

[markyb_lcy]

Down and out said:

df76 said:

Down and out said:

markyb_lcy said:

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

I’d hope that everyone is still allowed an opinion though?

I'm sure remainers will never stop having those.

Are leavers the least gracious “winners” of anything anywhere, ever?

Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.

Yay for populism, eh.

[Gojira]

markyb_lcy said:

Down and out said:

df76 said:

Down and out said:

markyb_lcy said:

Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.

Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.

You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.

I’d hope that everyone is still allowed an opinion though?

I'm sure remainers will never stop having those.

Are leavers the least gracious “winners” of anything anywhere, ever?

Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.

Yay for populism, eh.

You're not wrong, unfortunately...