RE: GM to build new US Army truck
Discussion
Syristix said:
The dagor ISV (above) that was competing with it for the contract looks equally 'windy'...
$1m was given to both parties to come up with their prototypes... GM must have been laughing all the way to the bank...
Looks like Oshkosh were also on the competition with something similar to the Jackal. Shame the Boeing/MSI one didn't make it to the last phase of the competition, who wouldn't want a vehicle called the "Phantom Badger" $1m was given to both parties to come up with their prototypes... GM must have been laughing all the way to the bank...
The US army are already using the Flyer 72, bought as whatever the US equivalent of an Urgent Operational Requirement is, in this role, and now they have a winner of a formal competition for a vehicle to fill the role rather than using the closest fit commercial off the shelf offering.
Most of the US special forces gucci vehicles* in Kandahar were being used to go to and from the DEFAC (or dining hall for non Spams). And whilst they are "fun" when the weather is decent, when it comes to rain no one wants to go out in them.
- Just to add thats the badger in the post above.
Edited by petop on Monday 29th June 12:56
RizzoTheRat said:
That's because it's not intended to deal with snipers in mountains. I assume it will be used for reconnaissance and to get fire support teams around in a hurry, like a lighter version of the British Army's Jackal
These kind of vehicles are indeed for reconnaissance and for special forces. Special forces often use Chinooks for transport, the larger and heavier armoured vehicles mentioned here can't fit inside Chinooks.
The Vector:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgBJLkf0BsE&t=...
The Vector is developed as a fast movement vehicle during reconnaissance and attack actions deep in enemy territory. Special operations forces (SOF) use these in relatively small units in vehicles with weapons such as the .50 heavy machine gun and the 40mm automatic grenade launcher. These are often high-risk missions in areas that are virtually impassable without robust vehicles. Vector stands for versatile expeditionary commando tactical off road, or a versatile off-road vehicle for tactical command missions.they can be equipped with a ballistic protection kit.
The modular ballistic protection package consists of a detachable "blast plate", ballistic doors with glass, ballistic doors without glass and a ballistic split-screen windshield. This is to protect occupants from small mines and small-bore weapons.
Edited by DeltonaS on Monday 29th June 16:14
das_funky_zeit said:
It looks ready for a 2020 Mad Max remake
If its to replace the Hummer, it will have the same underpinning constraint:- it will have to have a wheel base the same as the army trucks, so it can fit the same ruts in an unmade road.
Its the same sort of military logic that requires weapons to use a standardised round size.
sgtBerbatov said:
The ideal vehicle to deal with snipers in the mountain. It's like the designer(s) of this monstrosity don't have, or never have had, loved family members in the military.
And just like that all of GMs designers and engineers were fired and the whole project was cancelled because non of them had thought of this possibility....
sgtBerbatov said:
The ideal vehicle to deal with snipers in the mountain. It's like the designer(s) of this monstrosity don't have, or never have had, loved family members in the military.
That's a great point, and I'm betting neither GM or USGov have considered that in the design brief, original RFP, the various technical iterations and procurement/assessment rounds. Best get on to the DoD and stop them before they make a huge mistake.Hol said:
- it will have to have a wheel base the same as the army trucks, so it can fit the same ruts in an unmade road.
*track
I don't think procurement specified a 70 Ton tank?
So they got what they asked fo,r a lightweight, heli portable (underslung by medium heli) internal load by heavy heli, manoeuvrable, small sized vehicle that offers a stable gun platform and room for storage of 9 Pax and their kit for 72 hours duration.
The Jackal weighs 6 tons and is only transportable by chinook with reinforced floors. Hence lighter vehicles like this exist.
Situational awareness is massive in these vehicles. Try sitting in the back of a warrior APC and getting out under fire and not having a clue where the enemy is firing from or what you will see once those doors open.
With these vehicles you can actually see the threat and deal with it or avoid it much earlier. In armoured vehicles it is totally different
Each has its purpose.
By the way the Land Rover WMIK was a brilliant piece of kit. But once they starting mounting 40mm GMG's and .50 Cal HMG's on it, it rocked too much. So the Jackal was released from SF only use as it is able to "lock" its suspension when firing. Making the weapons far more accurate. It is not particularly IED proof. But much better than the WMIK which was designed for conventional warfare rather than an insurgency.
So they got what they asked fo,r a lightweight, heli portable (underslung by medium heli) internal load by heavy heli, manoeuvrable, small sized vehicle that offers a stable gun platform and room for storage of 9 Pax and their kit for 72 hours duration.
The Jackal weighs 6 tons and is only transportable by chinook with reinforced floors. Hence lighter vehicles like this exist.
Situational awareness is massive in these vehicles. Try sitting in the back of a warrior APC and getting out under fire and not having a clue where the enemy is firing from or what you will see once those doors open.
With these vehicles you can actually see the threat and deal with it or avoid it much earlier. In armoured vehicles it is totally different
Each has its purpose.
By the way the Land Rover WMIK was a brilliant piece of kit. But once they starting mounting 40mm GMG's and .50 Cal HMG's on it, it rocked too much. So the Jackal was released from SF only use as it is able to "lock" its suspension when firing. Making the weapons far more accurate. It is not particularly IED proof. But much better than the WMIK which was designed for conventional warfare rather than an insurgency.
tgx said:
I guess it's purpose is to be lightweight because it offers no other benefits.
Maybe they will also airdrop armor that will lock onto the outer cage? Otherwise
it has all the protection of a dune buggy.
This is an example how special forces operate, not with heavy armoured vehiclesMaybe they will also airdrop armor that will lock onto the outer cage? Otherwise
it has all the protection of a dune buggy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn2bpOzc19M
Edited by DeltonaS on Monday 29th June 23:10
tgx said:
I guess it's purpose is to be lightweight because it offers no other benefits.
Maybe they will also airdrop armor that will lock onto the outer cage? Otherwise
it has all the protection of a dune buggy.
It's got lots of other benefits: fast, manoeuvrable, decent passenger capacity, fuel efficient, adaptable, cheap (in comparison to a an armoured infantry fighting vehicle).Maybe they will also airdrop armor that will lock onto the outer cage? Otherwise
it has all the protection of a dune buggy.
I think people have still got the bad taste in their mouth from the Snatch Land Rover not performing on Op Telic. It was a vehicle designed for dealing with riots in Norn' Ireland not roadside bombs in Basra. Yet that was still far more protected than some of the vehicle Our Chaps were using over there.
I may have done the maths wrong but I made the cost to be £ ($?) 330,000 per unit. That's a lot for a stripped down chassis and a drivetrain. Even if it includes the through-life spares and maintenance.
waftycranker said:
I may have done the maths wrong but I made the cost to be £ ($?) 330,000 per unit. That's a lot for a stripped down chassis and a drivetrain. Even if it includes the through-life spares and maintenance.
There will be millions of dollars of engineering costs involved. They aren’t visible when GM build 100,000 of something a year for 5 years, But a few hundred and it is very obvious.PushedDover said:
How odd not to have anything to protect the radiator (never mind occupants).
I can imagine that is easy to puncture.
OMG!!!I can imagine that is easy to puncture.
The LRDG and SAS kept half the German Afrika Corps quaking in their pants waiting for a surprise night time attack in WW2. They destroyed hundreds of aircraft, destroyed fuel dumps and bases across North Africa and effectively routed the Italians out of most of their territory. Germany had to send in Rommel and the Afrika Corps to stabilise things. We all know how that turned out.
They achieved all that with this.... And you think they were worried about the radiators?
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