RE: New e-tron S is the first fast Audi EV
Discussion
Mouse Rat said:
hu8742 said:
SuperPav said:
This car is not a J1 based car, it is PPE, therefore no relation to Taycan at all.
4.5 seconds for a "fast" EV is embarrassingly slow, I don't know why PH say that's fast enough. It's quick, don't get me wrong, but £90k for an "S" Audi that can't out-accelerate an S3? Come on... A mid-range Model 3 or an entry Model S are both faster...
Not sure what Audi are doing with their EV's but they seem to have shocking efficiency and very poor performance given how much power they've got and the size of motors they're using.
They look good and are comfortable, but it's the only EV I've driven where I genuinely experienced range anxiety, the real world range of the E-Tron (non S model) I had was ~160 miles. Having driven I-PACE's before, this was a bit unexpected.
Spot on. Not that quick, not great range. I'm sure build quality is good but other than that, way, way behind Tesla. 4.5 seconds for a "fast" EV is embarrassingly slow, I don't know why PH say that's fast enough. It's quick, don't get me wrong, but £90k for an "S" Audi that can't out-accelerate an S3? Come on... A mid-range Model 3 or an entry Model S are both faster...
Not sure what Audi are doing with their EV's but they seem to have shocking efficiency and very poor performance given how much power they've got and the size of motors they're using.
They look good and are comfortable, but it's the only EV I've driven where I genuinely experienced range anxiety, the real world range of the E-Tron (non S model) I had was ~160 miles. Having driven I-PACE's before, this was a bit unexpected.
The Tesla very obviously has been designed as a EV from the ground up. As an EV its superior in everyway, its efficient, quick, nimble, easy to use, minimalistic and best of all has the charging infrastructure to support everyday use. I see why owners are smug gets, you feel everyone else is driving the past.
But as a car its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable. If it had a petrol engine it would be terrible.
The Audi as an EV is 3/5 of the Tesla. Slower (still quick for a car), less range, heavy and clumsy and reliant on a inconsistent and patchy infrastructure.
As a car its wonderful. Im no fan of the Q5, Q7 but the E-turd looks fantastic. With the smaller wheels and high profile tyres it look just right. The interior is wonderful and lightyears ahead of the model 3. Its a nice place to be.
I loved both of these oddballs . The Tesla is a whitegoods tool, designed to to get from A-B. The Audi is a flawed luxury item.
I'm hopping the Polestar 2 is the happy medium of a great car and EV.
Add in the Musk factor and I’m completely turned off by them, and when they announce semi rigs (wagons) that can do 0-60 in something like 5 seconds, to be honest that would be crazy, having that performance for something towing 40 tonnes would be completely irresponsible.
All I really wanted was to say thanks for summing up Tesla so perfectly!
aston addict said:
Teslas... if they had a petrol engine, would I buy one? Nope.
if an 812 superfast would have a rover n/a diesel engine, would I buy one? nope.silliest question of the day...
owning both an a6 and a tesla 3 i can say that audi’s perceived quality is slightly better (slightly, not massively). but I would buy again any car that achieves the drivetrian smoothness and scalpel-sharp precision of the tesla, its precise handling, or the perfection of its brake-less driving, even if it would be diesel powered.
(which of course it couldn’t be).
if an 812 superfast would have a rover n/a diesel engine, would I buy one? if it would have the same power-delivery, speed, and noise of the v12 one, yes
Mouse Rat said:
This week I've driven the Model 3 performance and mid level E-Tron. They are totally different, here's my thoughts
The Tesla very obviously has been designed as a EV from the ground up. As an EV its superior in everyway, its efficient, quick, nimble, easy to use, minimalistic and best of all has the charging infrastructure to support everyday use. I see why owners are smug gets, you feel everyone else is driving the past.
But as a car its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable. If it had a petrol engine it would be terrible.
The Audi as an EV is 3/5 of the Tesla. Slower (still quick for a car), less range, heavy and clumsy and reliant on a inconsistent and patchy infrastructure.
As a car its wonderful. Im no fan of the Q5, Q7 but the E-turd looks fantastic. With the smaller wheels and high profile tyres it look just right. The interior is wonderful and lightyears ahead of the model 3. Its a nice place to be.
I loved both of these oddballs . The Tesla is a whitegoods tool, designed to to get from A-B. The Audi is a flawed luxury item.
I'm hopping the Polestar 2 is the happy medium of a great car and EV.
The Tesla description struck a chord, and I enjoyed reading it, but can you help me complete the white goods analogy. The Tesla very obviously has been designed as a EV from the ground up. As an EV its superior in everyway, its efficient, quick, nimble, easy to use, minimalistic and best of all has the charging infrastructure to support everyday use. I see why owners are smug gets, you feel everyone else is driving the past.
But as a car its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable. If it had a petrol engine it would be terrible.
The Audi as an EV is 3/5 of the Tesla. Slower (still quick for a car), less range, heavy and clumsy and reliant on a inconsistent and patchy infrastructure.
As a car its wonderful. Im no fan of the Q5, Q7 but the E-turd looks fantastic. With the smaller wheels and high profile tyres it look just right. The interior is wonderful and lightyears ahead of the model 3. Its a nice place to be.
I loved both of these oddballs . The Tesla is a whitegoods tool, designed to to get from A-B. The Audi is a flawed luxury item.
I'm hopping the Polestar 2 is the happy medium of a great car and EV.
If a Tesla is a tacky hotpoint washing machine, what would the Audi be?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 2nd July 00:03
k have they (needed) to put in a 3rd motor instead of making it more efficient. P-Jay said:
I don't know whay J1 / PPE is, but are we saying that VW that own Porsche, Audi and VW and allowing their sub-brands all to develop their own EV tech? Why would you do that?
Seems like a costly attempt at fostering innovation within VAG. Volkswagen’s trouble with the iD3 makes the whole thing look silly. How can the same car maker push out Taycan’s and e-tron’s while at the same time having such problems with the software with their budget offering. Is it all down to the over the air update tech? Bizarre.Hellbound said:
P-Jay said:
I don't know whay J1 / PPE is, but are we saying that VW that own Porsche, Audi and VW and allowing their sub-brands all to develop their own EV tech? Why would you do that?
Seems like a costly attempt at fostering innovation within VAG. Volkswagen’s trouble with the iD3 makes the whole thing look silly. How can the same car maker push out Taycan’s and e-tron’s while at the same time having such problems with the software with their budget offering. Is it all down to the over the air update tech? Bizarre.E-tron was supposed to be out many years ago and is basically its own platform, a stepping stone to later, using an existing ICE ca as a basis, apart from a few variants its not going to be used in anything else. It took yeas longer than planned (they initially talked about it in about 2009) and cost a fortune to develop.
MEB platform is supposed to be the for mass production (id3/4 etc).
sambucket said:
The Tesla description struck a chord, and I enjoyed reading it, but can you help me complete the white goods analogy.
If a Tesla is a tacky hotpoint washing machine, what would the Audi be?
As a stepping stone, perhaps the Audi analogy is a machine polished granite block,If a Tesla is a tacky hotpoint washing machine, what would the Audi be?
In a Crystal clear snow fed Alpine stream. So Heidi can still wash your smalls by hand in a far more stylish way.
But it’s high summer and most of the snow has gone and you and your stag party have just come back from a long weekend at Glastonbury. How’s that for range anxiety?
Or as the french would say, Perhaps you can polish a Turd.
Edited by blue al on Thursday 2nd July 05:20
Edited by blue al on Thursday 2nd July 05:22
stabilio said:
Whatever you think of Tesla, they are miles ahead of the traditional ‘big boys’ in the EV market. How does the Audi have such a big battery, with 3 motors yet get such poor performance?
Guess they are working within the guidelines of the battery supplier warranty contract.Unlike Tesla, who make their own can be a little freer and as they push the limits on they call them 'updates', meanwhile Audi continues to operate in a manner to protect its existing pension funds.
RobDickinson said:
PPE platform was supposed to be the high end luxury platform developed by Porsche but used by VW/Audi also.
E-tron was supposed to be out many years ago and is basically its own platform, a stepping stone to later, using an existing ICE ca as a basis, apart from a few variants its not going to be used in anything else. It took yeas longer than planned (they initially talked about it in about 2009) and cost a fortune to develop.
MEB platform is supposed to be the for mass production (id3/4 etc).
MEB is developed by VW and intended to be the mass/volume/cheaper architecture E-tron was supposed to be out many years ago and is basically its own platform, a stepping stone to later, using an existing ICE ca as a basis, apart from a few variants its not going to be used in anything else. It took yeas longer than planned (they initially talked about it in about 2009) and cost a fortune to develop.
MEB platform is supposed to be the for mass production (id3/4 etc).
PPE is developed by Audi (and is loosely based on the MLB evo architecture the same way that the D7e of the I-PACE is a development of D7a) and is a large battery, premium EV architecture for larger saloons and SUV's primarily
J1 is developed by Porsche and is the performance architecture, lower and much more expensive, for sports cars and sports saloons.
The structure makes sense, and the fact the're developed by different brands is just down to the organisation of the VAG group. (same as previously for ICE: MQB led by VW, MLB led by Audi, MSB led by Porsche etc.)
The crossover of parts from Taycan to PPE is minimal because Taycan uses a 800V architecture, so its batteries, power electronics and motors are not compatible for use on a 400V PPE platform. They're also bloody expensive as a result. That doesn't mean that engineering development isn't shared, but it's not the same as popping the Taycan motors into the E-Tron or vice versa.
Also I wasn't having a massive pop at the Audi E-tron as such, it is a very nice car and probably the most appealing of the Audi range excluding the more exotic RS type stuff. It's just that they really do seem to be behind the curve with regards to electrical efficiency and performance, not just against Tesla but against others too. (e.g. Polestar, Porsche, Jaguar).
4.5 seconds is what a Golf R can do, nobody is questioning that being rapid! But if Audi released a new S6 with a 5.5s 0-60 time, everyone would consider that a bit.. meh. When other EV's calling card is rapid 0-60 numbers, this is par for the course here so 4.5s doesn't stand out as much of an achievement.
MountainsofSussex said:
There seems to be a lot of comparing this to Model 3. Surely this should be compared to Model X, and Model 3 compared to the VW id3?
Yes, the E-Tron is somewhere between a Model Y and a Model X (Model X is noticeably bigger than the E-Tron). But I think all the arguments made still stand. An entry level Model Y and Model X both have similar acceleration as this "performance range-topper" from Audi, and they have MUCH longer range, without bigger batteries. That's not even mentioning the Performance models, which are on a different level again. Obviously the overall appeal is more than one dimensional, but in these two metrics alone, the S variants from Audi don't appear competitive.
SuperPav said:
4.5 seconds for a "fast" EV is embarrassingly slow, I don't know why PH say that's fast enough. It's quick, don't get me wrong, but £90k for an "S" Audi that can't out-accelerate an S3? Come on... A mid-range Model 3 or an entry Model S are both faster...
.
Small hot-hatch S faster than big heavy SUV S shock?.
I cannot see the benefits of this over the Jaguar i-Pace. The Jag's styling is far better to my eyes (not overwrought with slashes and creases), it's designed as a BEV from the word go (and looks like it), has similar performance and rather better range, and also costs a significant amount less.
This car, to me, is just another over-styled mess with a very large price-tax attached. It's a lazy effort by comparison.
This car, to me, is just another over-styled mess with a very large price-tax attached. It's a lazy effort by comparison.
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