Do you prefer usable bhp or more bhp than you need?

[anonymous-user]

Everything’s relative, one of my cars has over 800hp and it hooks up ok ish in the dry. I use it mostly for cruising and putting thrusty German cars back in their box.

[J4CKO]

I would really rather feel like I can use all the performance rather than feeling like I am holding it back all the time. I think actual acceleration force is part of it but its mixed in with noise, vibrations and your part in proceedings and on that score I feel autos fall down (For me, its a personal preference, not right/wrong)

Teslas major on sheer G force, but I would take a lot slower with the other stuff going on and feeling like I am using all it has, but there is definitely a place for silent, effortless performance, when you are not in the mood.

[cerb4.5lee]

donkmeister said:

I feel that someone whose username indicates they previously owned a TVR with nearly 400bhp/tonne might already know all of this so I'll end with...

Worst... "I own an M4"... Post... EVVVAHHH!!!!

[cerb4.5lee]

wormus said:

Everything’s relative, one of my cars has over 800hp and it hooks up ok ish in the dry. I use it mostly for cruising and putting thrusty German cars back in their box.

I hope I never see you out on the road then! That much be epic for sure!

[J4CKO]

wormus said:

Everything’s relative, one of my cars has over 800hp and it hooks up ok ish in the dry. I use it mostly for cruising and putting thrusty German cars back in their box.

That's the point, have you had the car tuned because you enjoy it more or teach some upstart in a 320D a lesson ? The rest of time you cruise not using the performance ?

I am sure its a valuable service you are providing

I just go out when its quiet and just enjoy the drive.

[Gary C]

Well, as a daily I have a 1.0 polo, and its a hoot to drive.

You can actually throw it about, and get the tail mobile at not daft speeds whereas the 911 is much harder to exploit.

Having said that, my EVO V was epic as you could throw that around too, especially in the wet when cars such as M3's were hamstrung.

[cerb4.5lee]

J4CKO said:

I would really rather feel like I can use all the performance rather than feeling like I am holding it back all the time.

I definitely get a bit of this to be fair(especially after the Cooper S). I like that I have a pretty quick car with the M4 and I sometimes feel like I should stretch it's legs every now and then, but the reality out on the roads though is that there aren't that many opportunities to do so though.

It is nice to know it is there though, but I do often wonder how the owners of M5s/E63Ss etc get on with over 600bhp.

[J4CKO]

cerb4.5lee said:

J4CKO said:

I would really rather feel like I can use all the performance rather than feeling like I am holding it back all the time.

I definitely get a bit of this to be fair(especially after the Cooper S). I like that I have a pretty quick car with the M4 and I sometimes feel like I should stretch it's legs every now and then, but the reality out on the roads though is that there aren't that many opportunities to do so though.

It is nice to know it is there though, but I do often wonder how the owners of M5s/E63Ss etc get on with over 600bhp.

Yeah, I kind of got this with even the M135i which was about 360 bhp, coupled with the shortcomings elsewhere and it being auto, never felt in 100 percent control of it. The answer, for me wasnt a Biturbo Merc or similar, magnificent though they are.

hmm, you want your Mini back dont you ?

[leef44]

jonindorset said:

I do think the OP has a very valid point, only he's realised it after buying the 400bhp+ car...

What I want to be driving is something that has all of the sounds, performance and sensations of something out of the late 1950s - mid 1980s in which more than a tonne was heavy and more than 100bhp was a lot! Lacking in refinement, majoring in noise, full of feel and feedback, hugely skilled to drive well and incredibly involving.

What I'm left with (especially if it needs to carry 4 people on occasion) is something that weighs the best part of 2 tonnes, with c.300bhp, an automatic gearbox (as no manuals are available) and could be driven by a grandmother with her eyes closed. "Progress" has a lot to answer for !

The middle bit is a perfect explanation why I still have my little Suzuki Ignis Sport 05. It has four seats, is under a ton and has around 100bhp. Really fun and you can make it scream.

My other car, SLK with over 400bhp I find I drive more sedately but I enjoy it for its V8 burble, plus top down to hear it better

[jamieduff1981]

Hmm. It's the whole package really. I like a car in which I feel I can sample what it has to offer. I enjoyed trying for that once-in-a-blue-moon occassion when I could just above launch my Cerbera well for than any other car experience. It was involving to drive from a crawl though. I then had the Jag XFR-S with it and covered a good milage in a V8 F-Type but all that did was highlight that there is so much more to it than numbers and people who haven't directly experienced similar cars can't really judge except for the brochure - which is half the reason why I've zero interest in anything new on the market.

Fast and involving cars are fun. Slow and involving cars are fun. Acceleration =/= fun so your zero-60 in 3.whatever seconds in a modern car is about as entertaining as taking the bins out - and the car will be frustrating to drive most of the time because you're paying for a lot of performance you know is there and you simply can't get near.

Chris Harris ranked the M6 above the XFR-S in his 2014(? I think?) video because "it came alive above 100mph" - so what? I do 99.99% of my driving at ~70mph or less so how is a car that feels less involving until going fast enough for an automatic court summons going to be the better car? I bought the car that was better to drive at the speeds I drive at.

Even that car though was pretty dull compared to either a Cerbera or MX-5, and frankly, the F-Type V8 was worse - it had an abundance of power and as a result it wasn't really possible to stretch out the V8's legs without artificially holding gears the gearbox didn't want to and the engine didn't need to just to get into the upper third of the rev range. The car gave pretty much the same performance leaving it in full automatic and letting it change gears earlier and use the torque, rendering the whole experience one which felt like a waste of time and utterly unfulfilling.

My conclusion is that I prefer a balance of sound, power and grip that entertain and are enjoyable at UK road speeds. Current performance cars have "jumped the shark" to borrow a phrase from television. One can only imagine that others enjoy having them much more than they enjoy exploring their capabilities.

[stef1808]

I’ve never had a car which I thought had too much power.
Too much grip, electronics etc for sure but never too much power

[Spleen]

My 2cv is actually more fun to drive than my F430. That said, one is certainly more exciting than the other.

[Kawasicki]

My idea of fun is using the performance.
My idea of frustration is not being able to really use the performance.

I drove the same M3/M4 and thought to myself, "wow, whoever uses this performance is truly tearing along". They are, in the real world, extremely quick cars.

Hence I have no wish to buy a fast car. An old E36 318is is fine. I prefer driving over cars.

[cerb4.5lee]

J4CKO said:

hmm, you want your Mini back dont you ?

I know we've had this conversation before but I do genuinely miss the Mini. Some might think that I've gone completely mad(and don't get me wrong I do love the M4) but when I had the Mini I really liked how much fun it was for almost all of the time.

The M4 is fun under full throttle and when you can feel the rear moving around for sure, but it feels quite sensible at normal speeds...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.

[rotaryjam]

I enjoy driving my wife's Fiat 500 1.2 purely because I get to thrash the hell out of it without worrying about speed limits.

Definitely something to be said for winding up a slower car like the mini cooper s mentioned. That's one of the reasons I really enjoyed my old Alfa GTV 3.0, you could thrash it and get that lovely busso noise l without ever being worried about going too fast

[halo34]

In my past I had a skyline running 450 bhp and an impreza at around 300 bhp (we are talking a while ago).

Frankly these days I couldn't see myself enjoying either as much as I did back in those days.

The road state where I am are now so terrible, dashcams and attention to the NC500 speed awareness related issues mean I couldn't justify it for the brief moments I could unleash. Not to mention the sheer number of camper vans, cars and traffic thats around now.

I potter about in a passat estate diesel at the moment, is it fast no, its not exciting either. But if I was changing it would be a mid ground I think, fun but not outright fast.

[SturdyHSV]

Volvolover said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm currently finding my F82 M4(430bhp) a touch frustrating on the road...and I find myself overtaking stuff and then quickly running out of road or either catching the next car up quickly and I'm back on the brakes. Whereas when I had my Mini Cooper S(192bhp) I never had that problem, and I could pretty much use all of the performance for most of the time.

So it comes back to the argument of either having usable performance or more performance than you need? So which do you prefer and why?

Just enough torque to break traction is enough

This approaches my stance, I like enough torque to mean the accelerator pedal is another input I need to pay attention to using well (like the steering wheel and the brake pedal).

It's not so much the amount of power that I care about, just so long as there's too much of it for the chassis / tyres

[Zen_Master]

My current car is 300bhp which is plenty to be honest. If anything it’s put me off wanting anything faster in future. I partly regret getting a hot hatch as every day is a battle not to overtake or drive fast just for the sake of it. It’s like an addiction.

[Gary C]

cerb4.5lee said:

J4CKO said:

hmm, you want your Mini back dont you ?

I know we've had this conversation before but I do genuinely miss the Mini. Some might think that I've gone completely mad(and don't get me wrong I do love the M4) but when I had the Mini I really liked how much fun it was for almost all of the time.

The M4 is fun under full throttle and when you can feel the rear moving around for sure, but it feels quite sensible at normal speeds...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.

I did drive an M3 on a track, the model with about 440hp and to be honest, the car was better than I was and felt a little 'dull' (wrong word, but I am struggling to find the right one), it just stuck and went, turned in flat and stable. Now if I had been allowed to turn off the nanny's it probably would have been 'exciting' but maybe too much so.

An exploitable car is where its at

, but these days at car that only wakes up at 90 is going to get you into trouble A golf R they gave me when my 911 was in for a service was far quicker in the real world but crashy and there is no way I would have wanted to provoke the tail out like I do in the Polo (because, quite simply I would have to go much too fast)

[jhonn]

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast, rather than a fast car slow - hence the reason that my fun car is an MX5.

I've driven powerful cars and plenty of really fast bikes - nowadays they can tend to take me out of comfort zone a bit quick.

So... it's useable and adequate BHP for me.