How do you drive an automatic?

[snotrag]

VS02 said:

If you are looking at a 4 series, they are more akin to a robotised manual gearbox than a traditional automatic.
All non M 4 Series models with an “auto” were/are equipped with an 8 speed dual clutch semi automatic transmission made by ZF. I would say put the car in N at a standstill to avoid wear to the clutch as it isn’t a TC trans, also crawling is not good for the DCT.

ZF 8 speed (the one used in tonnes and tonnes of stuff) is a traditional autobox. Torque converter and planetary gears.


Definitely not a 'robotised manual' or dual clutch!

[GroundEffect]

VS02 said:

If you are looking at a 4 series, they are more akin to a robotised manual gearbox than a traditional automatic.
All non M 4 Series models with an “auto” were/are equipped with an 8 speed dual clutch semi automatic transmission made by ZF. I would say put the car in N at a standstill to avoid wear to the clutch as it isn’t a TC trans, also crawling is not good for the DCT.

Just false. The clutch will be open in the DCT. Clutches in modern DCTs don't work the same as they do in AMTs - they are hydraulically controlled nested multiplate clutches. Being in D when sitting still does them no harm.

[Grrbang]

I have been informed that it’s more efficient to accelerate fairly quickly in a slush box, than to slowly build up speed.

That’s all the excuse I needed.

[Wills2]

MitchT said:

Interesting to know, particularly as it's the 4 Series that I'm interested in and the fact that most for sale seem to be autos has prompted my curiosity.

Yeah if you're going for a modern BMW it really does all work off the stop/start button that coupled with auto hold/handbrake you really don't have to do anything, get in the car press start flick into D and go then when I stop press the stop/start button again and everything happens you need to do nothing, P and handbrake engaged automatically, you just have to alight the car.

I think I'm pretty local to you so you're more than welcome to have a bash in my 7 series (they all use the same ZF8)

[Allegro_Snapon]

MitchT said:

Thanks all, very helpful.

In terms of "not being able to remove the key if it's not in "P"... I guess that doesn't apply to a car with "keyless go".

Indeed. Missus car (hybrid) has no handbrake, only "brake hold" by double tapping the footbrake for when stopped in traffic, or P for when finally stopped.

And being keyless and hybrid, one morning in January I parked it up on our drive outside the kitchen window the car having being in "silent electric mode" when I got home. I forgot to press the engine off button, wnet inside, put keys in "secret place" which must still be close enough for the car to think they are in the car. Three hours later whilst washing up, looking out the kitchen window, steam starts coming out the car exhaust............I'd forgot to press the "engine stop button" when I got out three hours previous. Trip computer showed 4 mile journey, 3hrs 4 mins, 1mph average speed and 2 mpg fuel consumption!

[BMR]

Never had an auto before I bought my Volvo last year, and I only recently discovered when you come to a standstill, that if you apply a bit more pressure on the foot brake it will then hold the car automatically whilst you’re waiting.

[VS02]

I apologise for my misinformed comments.. all this time I thought the ZF8 was a DCT

[valiant]

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

[Pica-Pica]

MitchT said:

Stupid question, I know. Obviously you put in in "D" and press the accelerator to go and the brake to stop.

However, I have never driven an auto and was wondering about a few of the more subtle elements...

1:
When you park a manual you can leave it in gear to provide more security than the handbrake alone provides. Does putting an auto in "P" effectively do the same thing? Does it lock the car "in gear" making it impossible to move because the engine is off?

2:
If you stop at traffic lights, etc., should you put an auto in "N"? I know with an automated manual with a paddle shift you're recommended to put it in neutral when you're stationary as the clutch will suffer excessive wear if it's in gear. I have no idea what an auto has that equates to a clutch, or if this can be worn excessively by leaving the car in "D" when stopped with the engine running.

3:
Why can't an auto be towed? I once had to be recovered and the breakdown guy on the phone asked if the car was a manual or an auto because autos can't be towed. Why? Surely an auto in "N" is the same as a manual in neutral.

In my 335d with ZF8 auto, then :
1) P can be manually engaged when stopped, by pressing the P button, whilst foot is on the service brake (that is, the normal brake pedal). Park is also automatically engaged when the engine has been switched off by pressing the stop button, opening the drivers door, or unlatching the seat belt (only if stationary)

2) if stopped at traffic lights, then I will engage N if there is a long wait, and the car behind has stopped safely behind me. If a short wait, and they will not be inconvenienced I keep it in D with foot on the service brake pedal. If the car is in D mode and in an engine-off mode of the stop/start cycle, and I wish not to show brake lights AND keep the engine off then I can engage P which will maintain the stopped engine (Neutral will not do this - the engine will restart)

3) Pass on the reasons why, but my handbook says it must be recovered on a flat-bed, not by towing.

For info, the car has a manual parking brake hand-lever, which can be used, or not, in all the above scenarios. It also has a (very effective) hill-hold that simply works when the service brake is pressed when on a hill, and maintains that hold until the drive is taken up by using the accelerator pedal - as effective and smooth as any manual transmission and handbrake hill start could be.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Saturday 25th June 22:56

[randomeddy]

I had a Mercedes 260e auto, 1990 vintage, I never tried it but the hand book said it could be bump started, which didn't make sense because you had to have your foot on the brake to move the gear lever

[Wills2]

valiant said:

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

But you brake with your right foot so nothing changes in that regard.

[Evanivitch]

Wills2 said:

valiant said:

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

But you brake with your right foot so nothing changes in that regard.

But people think they're driving a manual, left foot goes looking for clutch on a slow stop and bam, hits the brake.

[Pica-Pica]

Evanivitch said:

Wills2 said:

valiant said:

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

But you brake with your right foot so nothing changes in that regard.

But people think they're driving a manual, left foot goes looking for clutch on a slow stop and bam, hits the brake.

Driven manuals for 50 years, then went to an auto 5 years ago. Never happened. Bit of an urban myth (or just piss poor semi-comatose driving!)

[Evanivitch]

Pica-Pica said:

Evanivitch said:

Wills2 said:

valiant said:

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

But you brake with your right foot so nothing changes in that regard.

But people think they're driving a manual, left foot goes looking for clutch on a slow stop and bam, hits the brake.

Driven manuals for 50 years, then went to an auto 5 years ago. Never happened. Bit of an urban myth (or just piss poor semi-comatose driving!)

Another PH driving god.

I did it once, went from driving my auto and hopped into the wife's manual car to pop to petrol station. Then hopped back into my auto.

Wife also did it driving at automatic for the first time on a slow test drive. Funnily enough, the Toyota sales person said it wasn't the first or last time it happened and offered the food advice I posted earlier.

Course, none of that ever happened.

[Mildlyinterestd]

Pica-Pica said:

Driven manuals for 50 years, then went to an auto 5 years ago. Never happened. Bit of an urban myth (or just piss poor semi-comatose driving!)

Happened to me last month within 1 minute of picking up my new (old) automatic.

I drive for a living and my foot just automatically went looking for a clutch that wasn't there when I approached a junction at about 10mph and I almost got rear ended by the car behind.

[Wills2]

Pica-Pica said:

Evanivitch said:

Wills2 said:

valiant said:

Weld your left foot to the footrest unless you fancy headbutting the windscreen.

But you brake with your right foot so nothing changes in that regard.

But people think they're driving a manual, left foot goes looking for clutch on a slow stop and bam, hits the brake.

Driven manuals for 50 years, then went to an auto 5 years ago. Never happened. Bit of an urban myth (or just piss poor semi-comatose driving!)

It certainly is, agreed.

[Maxym]

I avoid being stationary holding the car on the footbrake unless it’s just for a short time. Otherwise it’s electronic parking brake on. No need to select D if auto stop-start is in operation.

[WelshRich]

This thread has made me think - I’ve recently ordered an electric car but have never driven one before. I’m familiar with autos but are there foibles/best practices for a BEV that I should be aware of?

[Mr Tidy]

Pica-Pica said:

For info, the car has a manual parking brake hand-lever, which can be used, or not, in all the above scenarios. It also has a (very effective) hill-hold that simply works when the service brake is pressed when on a hill, and maintains that hold until the drive is taken up by using the accelerator pedal - as effective and smooth as any manual transmission and handbrake hill start could be.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Saturday 25th June 22:56

I've always bought manuals whenever possible, but they weren't a realistic option on 2.8 Granadas or 280 Mercs. But they were 3/4speed Autos with a torque convertor so very dated. I'm sure things have moved on!

FWIW I've had several manual BMWs that have Hill-Start assist that works a treat.

[Smint]

Too easy to stop far quicker than you intended with the trend for overservoed brakes.

HonestJohn used to be an enthusiast of using your left foot for braking when driving an auto, always thought that would likely end up in disaster when your left leg has been trained for many years sometimes decades to operate a clutch.
Dare say newer drivers who never drive manuals would take to LFB quite well.